Why The Huge Gap Between TMP & WOK?

[Christopher]

I've never seen the Saturday Night Live sketch, but then I was only born in '83. And we don't really get SNL over here in Blighty.

You may be able to find it online, though I'm not sure if it'd be available over there. It was a lot of fun, though Kevin Nealon was a really terrible Spock.

That Shatner appearance on SNL, by the way, was the source of at least two comedy bits that I've seen some people on the Internet mistake for reality. One was the famous "Get a Life!" sketch in which Shatner was portrayed as blowing up at detail-obsessed, nerdy fans at a convention. The other was the bit from his opening monologue where he claimed that the Japanese name for Star Trek was Sulu, Master of Navigation. Yes, I've seen that joke cited as a fact. (It was actually called Uchuu Daisakusen, "Great Operation in Space," which is as close to a literal Japanese translation of Star Trek as they could manage; and Sulu had his name changed to Kato.)

 

[Galileo7]

Would WOK have been as compelling if it was a direct sequel to TMP. Taking place within a year or so of those events of TMP [not years later] on the newly refit Enterprise during it's new five-year mission complete with the established TMP uniforms?

Yes, IMHO.

 

[Christopher]

Would WOK have been as compelling if it was a direct sequel to TMP. Taking place within a year or so of those events of TMP [not years later] on the newly refit Enterprise during it's new five-year mission complete with the established TMP uniforms?

I would've liked to see a continuation of TMP, but I wouldn't have wanted it to be TWOK, which was too radically different. I mean, clearly that was never on the table, since Bennett and Meyer were there to replace the TMP team and start over from scratch. And I regret that we never got the chance to see more of the version of Starfleet and the Federation that TMP let us glimpse.

 

[Galileo7]

.... And I regret that we never got the chance to see more of the version of Starfleet and the Federation that TMP let us glimpse.

Agree.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

As a general rule, commissioned officers are not demoted; if they screw up bad enough they just take a very unrewarding route to their new position: civilian.

Correct. It's also important to keep in mind that the crew's actions in TSFS were part of an isolated incident. There's no reason to assume they were breaking rules left and right.

 

[timtonruben359]

According to the Voyager episode Q2, Kirk's first five year mission ended in 2270. The Enterprise then underwent an 18 month refit so the Motion Picture likely too kplace around 2273. Q2 established that Kirk then commanded the Enterprise for a second 5 year mission which would then take us to 2278 and Wrath of Kahn takes place around 2283.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

It always surprised me how much the actors seemed to visibly age in the 3 years between TMP and TWOK (real time, not in-universe time, obviously). Shatner/Kirk passes for early forties in TMP, yet looks all of his 50 years in TWOK, and Nimoy/Spock looks much the same as he did in TOS in TMP, yet has become the jowly old-man Spock by the time TWOK rolls around. It makes the 10 or so in-universe years between the two believable in my book.

I think that at least some of that had to be due to how the actors were made up and shot for TWOK. Harve Bennett has said that one of the things he wanted for the film was for the actors to act their age and not try to look as they did in TOS, which presumably they had been doing for TMP.

 

[F. King Daniel]

According to the Voyager episode Q2, Kirk's first five year mission ended in 2270. The Enterprise then underwent an 18 month refit so the Motion Picture likely too kplace around 2273. Q2 established that Kirk then commanded the Enterprise for a second 5 year mission which would then take us to 2278 and Wrath of Kahn takes place around 2283.

Q2 mentions a second five year mission? I'm pretty sure it's only reference is to Kirk's "historic five year mission" ending in 2270.

 

[Christopher]

According to the Voyager episode Q2, Kirk's first five year mission ended in 2270. The Enterprise then underwent an 18 month refit so the Motion Picture likely too kplace around 2273.

18 months is only a year and a half, though. Kirk was chief of operations for two and a half years, so the refit didn't begin until a year into Kirk's tenure in the role.

Q2 mentions a second five year mission?

No, it does not. All Icheb says is that "a new chapter began when Kirk regained command of the Enterprise."

http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/716.htm

 

[OpenMaw]

I like to think that after TMP things proceeded much as they were initially intended/expected for Phase II. Kirk stayed on for awhile, until a new commander/Spock took his place, and slowly over the years, new faces were taking over until the ship had seen a class or two of cadets. Quietly shifting from the top-of-the-crop to being just an aging training vessel.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Given what Decker says TMP seems likely to take place in 2273 it seems to me. I wish they'd been bolder and made it a decade between the end of the 5 year mission and TMP. Surely Kolinahr takes more than a couple of years? Kirks attitude makes more sense if he hasn't commanded a starship for a decade etc etc.

It's always struck me as strange but Meyer comes along and effectively reboots the movie series with WOK. TMP is actually a movie cut adrift.

 

[locutus101]

I've been more than a little obsessed with this period lately and am pretty staggered by the huge temporal gap between TMP (very early 2270's) and WOK (very early 2280's). Has this ben discussed anywhere or does anyone have any theories or knowledge on why they decided to leave such a large gap narratively between the two films?

Khan belonged to a superior race with a life span of two hundred years, so they had to come up with something to explain why he looked so much older than when on TOS. One reason was the hardship on a very inhospitable planet the other had to be a time difference between the two events.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

Ironically, Montalban seems to aged more since his appearance in TOS than the rest of the main cast have in WOK.

 

[Christopher]

Khan belonged to a superior race with a life span of two hundred years...

Where are you getting that from? Nothing was established in "Space Seed" or TWOK about their life expectancy. They survived for centuries because they were in cryogenic stasis aboard the Botany Bay, not because their life expectancy was greater.

KIRK: Suspended animation... Is it possible they're still alive after centuries of travel?
MCCOY: It's theoretically possible. I've never heard of it being tested for this long a period.

 

[Terok Nor]

I don't recall the actual year of any of the TOS movies being stated on screen. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after the series ended just like in real life. TWOK is 3 years after that. That's the way I've always thought of them and it works for me.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

I don't recall the actual year of any of the TOS movies being stated on screen. As far as I'm concerned TMP is 10 years after the series ended just like in real life. TWOK is 3 years after that. That's the way I've always thought of them and it works for me.

Too much seems to have changed for only 3 years to have passed between TMP and WOK though. I also hope you don't follow that line of logic through though as that would mean two years between WOK and SFS and two years between SFS and VH.

 

[Terok Nor]

Too much seems to have changed for only 3 years to have passed between TMP and WOK though. I also hope you don't follow that line of logic through though as that would mean two years between WOK and SFS and two years between SFS and VH.

Too much has visually changed between TOS and TMP for it to make sense anyway. It all needs a handwave in one form or another. TSFS and TVH were stated on screen to happen shortly after TWOK to be fair.

 

[locutus101]

Where are you getting that from? Nothing was established in "Space Seed" or TWOK about their life expectancy. They survived for centuries because they were in cryogenic stasis aboard the Botany Bay, not because their life expectancy was greater.

KIRK: Suspended animation... Is it possible they're still alive after centuries of travel?
MCCOY: It's theoretically possible. I've never heard of it being tested for this long a period.

I take it from ENT where we learn that Kahn 's people have a life expectancy of two hundred years..

 

[Christopher]

I take it from ENT where we learn that Kahn 's people have a life expectancy of two hundred years..

But you said that the makers of TWOK "had to come up with something to explain" why Montalban looked older. The filmmakers in 1982 could not possibly have known what ENT would establish 22 years later.

 

[locutus101]

But you said that the makers of TWOK "had to come up with something to explain" why Montalban looked older. The filmmakers in 1982 could not possibly have known what ENT would establish 22 years later.

Still speaking about in-universe explanations.