I remember Dax talking about him in TAT.
The Klingons
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
I remember the big 3 old Klingons appearing in DS9, Kang Koloth and Kor, with one of then dying in that first ep, I think. That was probably Koloth, since we're having trouble remembering him in DS9.
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When they took known TOS Klingons and then brought them into the 24th century, with turtle heads, as M Dorn would say, they blew any possibility of reconciling the two different Klingon looks... at least by having two races. Kahless included, since his genetic clone would look like his original self.
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When they took known TOS Klingons and then brought them into the 24th century, with turtle heads, as M Dorn would say, they blew any possibility of reconciling the two different Klingon looks... at least by having two races. Kahless included, since his genetic clone would look like his original self.
Surgery.
It was never confirmed 100% that the clone was actually that of Khaless. Yes, it was confirmed that the clone's DNA match the DNA on the Knife of Kirom. However, it was only legend that the blood on the knife belonged to Khaless. The blood could have come from any random Klingon. Just look at all the "sacred relics" that came out after the time of Christ.
As I said up thread my pet theory is that the knife of Kirom is authentic. However, the blood was actually from Khaless' second in command, a ridged Klingon. While Khaless himself was a human Klingon.
Make up. The Human looking Klingons felt left out because of all of the bumpy-headedness in the 24th century, so they got appliances to make themselves scarier.
That's why everyone never took Picard seriously, his head is soooo smooth.
It's not something they'd ever discuss with outsiders, of course, but the whole of Klingon society went nuts for cosmetic surgery because of the invention of Anti-Botox, designed to make one's forehead lumpier rather than smoother. (It makes about as much sense as "Anti-Time", which Data one claimed existed, with a straight face.)
C
C57D
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Like this!
A very similar idea to that used in the (very non canon) FASA game. Following on from the superlative Final Reflection, they postulated that the TOS version were a cloned half Human,half Klingon half breed, better able to deal with Human social mores and planets.
But they became too good at dealing at this and so won many valuable worlds. And so, fearful that they were going to be usurped, the turtle head (original species) took back control from TMP onwards.
I see it like this:
In ENT - they were a feudal/mercantile empire.
In TOS - they underwent a fascist revolution, and modernised, abandoning tradition.
In TNG - they reverted after the revolution to reactionary nostalgia and atavism.
In ENT - they were a feudal/mercantile empire.
In TOS - they underwent a fascist revolution, and modernised, abandoning tradition.
In TNG - they reverted after the revolution to reactionary nostalgia and atavism.
Interesting summary and theory.
Best, it required me to look up atavism. I wasn't familiar with that concept. Thanks for sharing.
@PCz911 - These days I like the fascist TOS Klingons best - they were organized and just as scientifically adept as the Federation.
Here is a thread you may like (fanfiction history):
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-history-of-the-klingon-people.250915/
Here is a thread you may like (fanfiction history):
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-history-of-the-klingon-people.250915/
Actually, the implication was (at the end of Affliction/Divergence) that the new thing among Klingon surgeons would be 'cranial reconstruction' - i.e. plastic surgery to restore their ridges. And I'm sure a cure was developed for the Augment virus, that would take care of it. So that would explain Kor, Kang and Koloth.
As for Kahless, that's also easy to explain: The image of him was drawn from Kirk's mind. Kirk had only ever met the "smooth forehead" Klingons, so he assumed all Klingons looked like that. So that's why the 'false' Kahless did not have ridges whereas the real one we saw in TNG, did.
I also prefer this idea of the Klingon empire assimilating other peoples and the new subjects over time thinking of themselves as Klingons, it would have made the empire more interesting. I haven't watch DSN yet, this thread is making me want to watch it though.
But I also think that the idea of that was put forward by the Klingon scientist in Affliction (ENT). That the Klingon empire used to be quite progressive and intellectual, but that the warrior class took over and it was the warrior class that pushed for the augmentation to get super soldiers. So there is an interesting societal arch it terms of decadence and power hunger. Thats why Worf did'nt really get on very well in an all Klingon environment, because Worf grew up with all of the ideology and philosophy of the honorable Klingon, with out the posturing of the warrior class
But I also think that the idea of that was put forward by the Klingon scientist in Affliction (ENT). That the Klingon empire used to be quite progressive and intellectual, but that the warrior class took over and it was the warrior class that pushed for the augmentation to get super soldiers. So there is an interesting societal arch it terms of decadence and power hunger. Thats why Worf did'nt really get on very well in an all Klingon environment, because Worf grew up with all of the ideology and philosophy of the honorable Klingon, with out the posturing of the warrior class
Perhaps the smooth headed Klingons oppressed the ridge headed Klingons during the mid 2260s but were overthrown prior to TMP because they were such fuck ups and kept getting their asses kicked by Kirk. Then all smooth headed Klingons were so embarrassed they surgically altered themselves to have ridges.
(Yes, I'm ignoring Enterprise).
(Yes, I'm ignoring Enterprise).
That's why that "augment virus" explanation is crap. No Klingon would have gone through live a victim of this virus. You can count of pretty much everyone getting this "cranial reconstruction." Thus we would never have seen very many "smooth headed" Klingons at all in Kirk's era. The "augment virus" explanation defeats itself. So either it didn't happen(I subscribe to this) or there is another "real" explanation why a 2260's era Klingon would proudly walk around with a smooth forehead.
Either that or it took them a century and half for every Klingon to get fixed? 
JB
JB
I kind of liked the ENT answer to the Klingon problem but then again I have Enterprise on ignore and don't acknowledge a captain and ship set before Pike or Kirk!
JB
I thought the explanation was complete fan wank. Totally unnecessary and it ruined a great DS9 joke from the 30th anniversary episode. I'm not surprised the show was cancelled soon after they tried to explain why Klingons had smooth heads in TOS. Scraping the bottom of the barrel at its worst. The network obviously came to the same conclusion.
Well what else could they say? If we'd never seen Kang, Koloth and Kor with the turtle heads then we could say they were the one of many different species in The Klingon Empire! But they wanted to explain away one of the sore subjects in the TOS universe! Look at that I'm defending ENT which I didn't like much or own!
JB
JB
The only defense I can offer for ENT's solution is that any often repeated solutions already out there from 1979 to when they made that stupid episode couldn't be used for them to get credit for it. So all of the much MUCH better explanations couldn't be used, they had to come up with something batshit crazy for them to call it an original idea and get paid for it. Otherwise, they'd have to pay John M. Ford or someone else who came up with those better reasons.
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