Spock DID Get Emotional in this Show!!!

[VulcanMindBlown]

As much as it is considered heresy for the new reboot movie universe for Spock to get emotional, you have to realize that Spock did during the 1960's show lose his emotional control.

For example, there was Spock losing his control over his emotions during the "The Cage" and "Naked Time." Are there any others?

(I am not sure where this thread goes exactly, feel free to movie it, Admins.)

 

[spockboy]

As much as it is considered heresy for the new reboot movie universe for Spock to get emotional, you have to realize that Spock did during the 1960's show lose his emotional control.

For example, there was Spock losing his control over his emotions during the "The Cage" and "Naked Time." Are there any others?

(I am not sure where this thread goes exactly, feel free to movie it, Admins.)

Bringing up The Cage is kind of nonsense. It was the very first pilot. Nimoy was doing a character that had never been done before. Watch Encounter at Farpoint and see how awkward and out of character people are. It usually takes a show or two to get things into gear, although Nimoy had it down by The Corbomite Maneuver.

In The Naked Time, Spock was emotional because he was literally under the influence of a behavior changing virus, and the beautiful emotional roller coaster ride he went through gave us all huge insight into the character.
Remember him struggling and repeating" I am in CONTROL of my emotions" ?
THAT IS SPOCK.
Apparently Nimoy's fan mail doubled after that episode.

When Spock tried to beat up Kirk in TOS he was under the influences of a spore that messed up his mind. In the movie, Spock beat up Kirk because he was simply pissed off at him. Then he booted him off the ship! (obviously so Kirk could land on Delta Vega and conveniently meet Old Spock and Scotty)

BIG difference.

NUSpock seems to be emotional in every single film, there is no real inner struggle to NOT show emotion, there is no embarrassment when he does, there is no consistently looking down his nose at humanity in order to deny his own humanity. There is no constantly making genuinely funny sarcastic comments at humanity's expense. There is no reminding humanity how they have messed up throughout history.

When you watch Nimoy he is completely stone faced with an undercurrent of suppressed emotion, that peeks out occasionally. When you look at Quinto he appears to be in a constant state of brooding, and seems completely emotional as if he could crack a smile or get angry at any moment (and he does)

There is also no sense that he is a lonely outsider. He even gets to have a super hot girlfriend! That loneliness was a huge part of the character's popularity as many people could identify with being an awkward outsider, to one degree or another.

A lot of the wonderful qualities and subtle nuances of the character created by Roddenberry, Nimoy and all of the writers are mostly lost here. These are the qualities that made the character a Science Fiction legend.

So far, NuSpock generally bounces back and forth from these states:
-very angry
-slightly pissy
-mildly humorous.

That is it.

A very large part of the charm and pathos of all of these characters is that they are all alone. They have given up everything, family, stability, and romance in order to serve in Starfleet. They only have each other. They hold Starfleet in such high regard that they are willing to have nothing in order to be a part of it. Whereas NUKirk doesn't take Starfleet seriously at all, McCoy constantly complains about it, and Scotty was banished by Starfleet to Delta Vega.

One frustration is that I think all of the actors have the potential to do wonderful work but unfortunately the Hollywood Reboot Cookie Cutter has to dumb things down in order to make a "popcorn flick" which in their estimation, will make the most money. They dare not offend us knuckle draggers with interesting concepts, 3 dimensional characters, or philosophical notions.

It's a business, I get it.

The sad truth is that they DON'T have to.
Lord of the Rings made a ton of money and was beautifully written.

At the end of the day I'm very happy that they are making Star Trek movies and keeping it relevant.
I just think they can do a lot better when it comes to the writing.

So, let the finger pointing and "hater labeling" begin!

Spockboy

 

[johnnybear]

Spock had a few smiles back in the early days of TOS! Where No Man with Kirk and Spock playing chess, His joy at the Captain's dilemma of bring on board a con man and his three girls in Mudd's Women! Later on it was because of alien spores like you say and the odd parasite but in Amok Time he could hold it in no longer when he was relieved to see that Jim was still alive in sickbay! Later on we get his anger at McCoy on a planet called Sarpeidon five thousand years before he was born, but I think he was using that as an excuse because he fancied the a*** off Zarabeth!
JB

 

[Noname Given]

Bringing up The Cage is kind of nonsense. It was the very first pilot. Nimoy was doing a character that had never been done before. Watch Encounter at Farpoint and see how awkward and out of character people are. It usually takes a show or two to get things into gear, although Nimoy had it down by The Corbomite Maneuver.

In The Naked Time, Spock was emotional because he was literally under the influence of a behavior changing virus, and the beautiful emotional roller coaster ride he went through gave us all huge insight into the character.
Remember him struggling and repeating" I am in CONTROL of my emotions" ?
THAT IS SPOCK.
Apparently Nimoy's fan mail doubled after that episode.

When Spock tried to beat up Kirk in TOS he was under the influences of a spore that messed up his mind. In the movie, Spock beat up Kirk because he was simply pissed off at him. Then he booted him off the ship! (obviously so Kirk could land on Delta Vega and conveniently meet Old Spock and Scotty)

BIG difference.

NUSpock seems to be emotional in every single film, there is no real inner struggle to NOT show emotion, there is no embarrassment when he does, there is no consistently looking down his nose at humanity in order to deny his own humanity. There is no constantly making genuinely funny sarcastic comments at humanity's expense. There is no reminding humanity how they have messed up throughout history.

When you watch Nimoy he is completely stone faced with an undercurrent of suppressed emotion, that peeks out occasionally. When you look at Quinto he appears to be in a constant state of brooding, and seems completely emotional as if he could crack a smile or get angry at any moment (and he does)

There is also no sense that he is a lonely outsider. He even gets to have a super hot girlfriend! That loneliness was a huge part of the character's popularity as many people could identify with being an awkward outsider, to one degree or another.

A lot of the wonderful qualities and subtle nuances of the character created by Roddenberry, Nimoy and all of the writers are mostly lost here. These are the qualities that made the character a Science Fiction legend.

So far, NuSpock generally bounces back and forth from these states:
-very angry
-slightly pissy
-mildly humorous.

That is it.

A very large part of the charm and pathos of all of these characters is that they are all alone. They have given up everything, family, stability, and romance in order to serve in Starfleet. They only have each other. They hold Starfleet in such high regard that they are willing to have nothing in order to be a part of it. Whereas NUKirk doesn't take Starfleet seriously at all, McCoy constantly complains about it, and Scotty was banished by Starfleet to Delta Vega.

One frustration is that I think all of the actors have the potential to do wonderful work but unfortunately the Hollywood Reboot Cookie Cutter has to dumb things down in order to make a "popcorn flick" which in their estimation, will make the most money. They dare not offend us knuckle draggers with interesting concepts, 3 dimensional characters, or philosophical notions.

It's a business, I get it.

The sad truth is that they DON'T have to.
Lord of the Rings made a ton of money and was beautifully written.

At the end of the day I'm very happy that they are making Star Trek movies and keeping it relevant.
I just think they can do a lot better when it comes to the writing.

So, let the finger pointing and "hater labeling" begin!

Spockboy

^^^
Honestly, no.

Nimoy as Mr. Spock did OFTEN show emotion. Watch "The Corbomite Manuever", "The Enemy Within", "Charlie X", "The Menagerie I & II"; and the list goes on. As for 'no relationships' - Really? Did you not watch "This Side of Paradise"? In the second season "Journey To Babel" shows a deeply conflicted and emotional Spock.

He's as much of an outsider In JJ Trek as he was in the original TOS as well. Look at how Kirk and other members of Starfleet react to him in general. Is he more emotional (and more likely to show emotion) in the JJ Verse? yes. But he's had a VERY DIFFERENT experience then his older self from the Prime Timeline. Not only has he met that older self in person; he lost his mother (she survived to counsel him at least up until the time of the ST IV:TVH film), his homeworld; and mind-melded with Admiral Pike at the time of Pike's death. Christopher Pike was a pivotal character for him in BOTH worlds. In the Prime timeline Spock risked his career to help an officer he admired. In the JJ Timeline he actually fully experienced that character's death intimately.

I don't think you're a 'hater' BTW - but to expect a character with VERY different life experiences in a parallel world to act exactly like character from the Prime world (for lack of a better term) is interesting. JJ's Spock has dealt way more personally with mortality at a much earlier age then 'Prime Spock'; so I'm not at all surprised at his different take on how he handles emotions.

 

[spockboy]

As for 'no relationships' - Really? Did you not watch "This Side of Paradise"?

So you think a one day long "spore influenced" make out session with a girl is the same as the stability of having a steady girlfriend?
Wow.

To expect a character with VERY different life experiences in a parallel world to act exactly like character from the Prime world (for lack of a better term) is interesting. JJ's Spock has dealt way more personally with mortality at a much earlier age then 'Prime Spock'; so I'm not at all surprised at his different take on how he handles emotions

That's exactly my point. THEY created those fictional situations like gratuitously blowing up Vulcan and killing his mother and in the process, lost a lot of what made the character great. You talk like these things HAD to happen. They were chosen. They were cheap and easy plot devices employed to instantly create drama (written by people who wrote other quality material like Transformers) and are now used as an excuse/rationalization for an what is in my opinion is an overly human and unfaithful interpretation of Spock. Perhaps there is an arc there that will reveal itself, but in all honesty I think some people are seeing what they want to see, not what is actually happening.

I don't want to get into a I hate JJ movies thing here. I don't. I enjoyed Star Trek 2009 very much and I am grateful for the franchise being brought back from those horrible Nemesis days, but my gratitude does not extend to the point where I am complacent about writers changing what are to me, some of the most important qualities of a dearly beloved character.

And now I will go see Star Trek Beyond and see how that one plays out.

Spockboy

 

[T'Arwen]

^^^
Honestly, no.

Nimoy as Mr. Spock did OFTEN show emotion. Watch "The Corbomite Manuever", "The Enemy Within", "Charlie X", "The Menagerie I & II"; and the list goes on. As for 'no relationships' - Really? Did you not watch "This Side of Paradise"? In the second season "Journey To Babel" shows a deeply conflicted and emotional Spock.

He's as much of an outsider In JJ Trek as he was in the original TOS as well. Look at how Kirk and other members of Starfleet react to him in general. Is he more emotional (and more likely to show emotion) in the JJ Verse? yes. But he's had a VERY DIFFERENT experience then his older self from the Prime Timeline. Not only has he met that older self in person; he lost his mother (she survived to counsel him at least up until the time of the ST IV:TVH film), his homeworld; and mind-melded with Admiral Pike at the time of Pike's death. Christopher Pike was a pivotal character for him in BOTH worlds. In the Prime timeline Spock risked his career to help an officer he admired. In the JJ Timeline he actually fully experienced that character's death intimately.

I don't think you're a 'hater' BTW - but to expect a character with VERY different life experiences in a parallel world to act exactly like character from the Prime world (for lack of a better term) is interesting. JJ's Spock has dealt way more personally with mortality at a much earlier age then 'Prime Spock'; so I'm not at all surprised at his different take on how he handles emotions.

Some people also don't take into account different life circumstances when (unfairly) comparing Spock and T'Pol. She lost her father at a young age. Of course she's not going to handle her emotions as well as Spock.

 

[Noname Given]

As for 'no relationships' - Really? Did you not watch "This Side of Paradise"?

So you think a one day long "spore influenced" make out session with a girl is the same as the stability of having a steady girlfriend?
Wow.

Spockboy

Again, did you watch the episode? I ask because it detailed both characters HAD a previous existing relationship (which yes, Mr. Spock ended); but as the episode showed, he was conflicted with that ultimate decision. <--- That was my reason for bringing that particular episode up. In the context of the character of Mr. Spock - said relationship (prior to the spore influenced situation) was longer that just one day.

 

[UnknownSample]

That relationship was not romantic. Because, again, Spock is a Vulcan. They were colleagues. She wished it could have been more, but it couldn't until the time of the episode because of the spores.

 

[KevinGrem]

The new Spock character was horrible. Yes the old Spock showed emotion, but there was always a legitimate reason for it. The new Spock had no control whatsoever.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Spock in TOS showed emotions at times but always returned to center. T'Pol was all over the place. I think this may, at least partly, have something to do with Nimoy being a better and more experienced actor than Blalock.

 

[johnnybear]

Are we supposed to accept that the JJ TOS crew have had the same or similar adventures that the original crew had in between the movies? Or is it a universe just too different?
JB

 

[T'Arwen]

Spock in TOS showed emotions at times but always returned to center. T'Pol was all over the place. I think this may, at least partly, have something to do with Nimoy being a better and more experienced actor than Blalock.

I doubt it has much to do with the acting. This person doesn't like T'Pol's emotional nature but praises Jolene's acting.

http://www.trektoday.com/reviews/enterprise/impulse.shtml

 

[JeffinOakland]

I doubt it has much to do with the acting. This person doesn't like T'Pol's emotional nature but praises Jolene's acting.

http://www.trektoday.com/reviews/enterprise/impulse.shtml

As always, there's a dozen different ways to interpret something we'll never really "get".

 

[Tallguy]

Spock was often emotional in TOS. Most of the time those emotions were "anger" and "frustration".

Nobody has been able to do "Nimoy's" Spock. Quinto does a helluva job playing Quinto's Spock. He also brings some of the pricklier aspects of Spock's character which again have been lost over the years. Spock is often too serene, too cuddly. And post Trek V, too Data.

I liked him a lot in Beyond.

 

[KevinGrem]

Spock was often emotional in TOS. Most of the time those emotions were "anger" and "frustration".

No he wasn't. He was always calm and cool, even under tremendous pressure and responsibility.

 

[BillJ]

Spock showed quite a bit of emotion in TOS. Most of the time he was more subtle about it than Abrams Spock. But, Prime Spock didn't have the weight of losing his mother and homeworld on him.

KIRK: There's really something I don't understand about all of this. Maybe you can explain it to me. Logically, of course. When you jettisoned the fuel and ignited it, you knew there was virtually no chance of it being seen, yet you did it anyhow. That would seem to me to be an act of desperation.
SPOCK: Quite correct, Captain.
KIRK: Now we all know, and I'm sure the doctor will agree with me, that desperation is a highly emotional state of mind. How does your well-known logic explain that?
SPOCK: Quite simply, Captain. I examined the problem from all angles, and it was plainly hopeless. Logic informed me that under the circumstances, the only possible action would have to be one of desperation. Logical decision, logically arrived at.
KIRK: I see. You mean you reasoned that it was time for an emotional outburst.
SPOCK: Well, I wouldn't put it in exactly those terms, Captain, but those are essentially the facts.
KIRK: You're not going to admit that for the first time in your life, you committed a purely human emotional act?
SPOCK: No, sir.
KIRK: Mister Spock, you're a stubborn man.
SPOCK: Yes, sir.

 

[Vandervecken]

Amok Time

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But for goodness' sake he IS half human. And Jim is--Jim. I am pretty sure no one else in Spock's life would elicit anything like this, including Amanda (mom). Spock loves Kirk, and Kirk loves him, we all know it, like the most soulbound of brothers.

Spock in TOS showed emotions at times but always returned to center. T'Pol was all over the place. I think this may, at least partly, have something to do with Nimoy being a better and more experienced actor than Blalock.

Yes this--he always returned to center, to his essential Vulcan discipline which ruled him 99% of the time.

Spock in TOS showed emotions at times but always returned to center. T'Pol was all over the place. I think this may, at least partly, have something to do with Nimoy being a better and more experienced actor than Blalock.

Bringing up The Cage is kind of nonsense. It was the very first pilot. Nimoy was doing a character that had never been done before. Watch Encounter at Farpoint and see how awkward and out of character people are. It usually takes a show or two to get things into gear, although Nimoy had it down by The Corbomite Maneuver.

In The Naked Time, Spock was emotional because he was literally under the influence of a behavior changing virus, and the beautiful emotional roller coaster ride he went through gave us all huge insight into the character.
Remember him struggling and repeating" I am in CONTROL of my emotions" ?
THAT IS SPOCK.
Apparently Nimoy's fan mail doubled after that episode.

When Spock tried to beat up Kirk in TOS he was under the influences of a spore that messed up his mind. In the movie, Spock beat up Kirk because he was simply pissed off at him. Then he booted him off the ship! (obviously so Kirk could land on Delta Vega and conveniently meet Old Spock and Scotty)

BIG difference.

NUSpock seems to be emotional in every single film, there is no real inner struggle to NOT show emotion, there is no embarrassment when he does, there is no consistently looking down his nose at humanity in order to deny his own humanity. There is no constantly making genuinely funny sarcastic comments at humanity's expense. There is no reminding humanity how they have messed up throughout history.

When you watch Nimoy he is completely stone faced with an undercurrent of suppressed emotion, that peeks out occasionally. When you look at Quinto he appears to be in a constant state of brooding, and seems completely emotional as if he could crack a smile or get angry at any moment (and he does)

There is also no sense that he is a lonely outsider. He even gets to have a super hot girlfriend! That loneliness was a huge part of the character's popularity as many people could identify with being an awkward outsider, to one degree or another.

A lot of the wonderful qualities and subtle nuances of the character created by Roddenberry, Nimoy and all of the writers are mostly lost here. These are the qualities that made the character a Science Fiction legend.

So far, NuSpock generally bounces back and forth from these states:
-very angry
-slightly pissy
-mildly humorous.

That is it.

A very large part of the charm and pathos of all of these characters is that they are all alone. They have given up everything, family, stability, and romance in order to serve in Starfleet. They only have each other. They hold Starfleet in such high regard that they are willing to have nothing in order to be a part of it. Whereas NUKirk doesn't take Starfleet seriously at all, McCoy constantly complains about it, and Scotty was banished by Starfleet to Delta Vega.

One frustration is that I think all of the actors have the potential to do wonderful work but unfortunately the Hollywood Reboot Cookie Cutter has to dumb things down in order to make a "popcorn flick" which in their estimation, will make the most money. They dare not offend us knuckle draggers with interesting concepts, 3 dimensional characters, or philosophical notions.

It's a business, I get it.

The sad truth is that they DON'T have to.
Lord of the Rings made a ton of money and was beautifully written.

At the end of the day I'm very happy that they are making Star Trek movies and keeping it relevant.
I just think they can do a lot better when it comes to the writing.

So, let the finger pointing and "hater labeling" begin!

Spockboy

This is a brilliant analysis, spot on. It really is sad that nuTREK DOES have to be dumbed down. Making a movie for a mass market, rather than "fanboydom," IS going to equate to dumbed down and unnuanced. It isn't arrogance or a feeling of superiority saying this, it just is SO. I work in advertising and we often take copy and dumb it down to a 5th-grade level. Sometimes you CAN point to intellectual disparity, and most of the mass market, whether advertising or entertainment, including nuTREK, is hideously dumbed down, and deliberately. Guarantees it makes more money because there are many more dumb people than smart people. As we know in my work.

 

[T'Arwen]

As always, there's a dozen different ways to interpret something we'll never really "get".

What is the thing you don't get? And what does this have to do with acting vs how the character is written?

 

[BillJ]

This is a brilliant analysis, spot on. It really is sad that nuTREK DOES have to be dumbed down. Making a movie for a mass market, rather than "fanboydom," IS going to equate to dumbed down and unnuanced. It isn't arrogance or a feeling of superiority saying this, it just is SO. I work in advertising and we often take copy and dumb it down to a 5th-grade level. Sometimes you CAN point to intellectual disparity, and most of the mass market, whether advertising or entertainment, including nuTREK, is hideously dumbed down, and deliberately. Guarantees it makes more money because there are many more dumb people than smart people. As we know in my work.

But this has been the case for a really long time. Roddenberry, when making TOS, talked about the need for mass audiences, not to do sermons and to not try to explain science to the audience.

 

[JeffinOakland]

What is the thing you don't get? And what does thive to do with acting vs how the character is written?

There are various ways to understand why actors portray the character they are pretending to be and we'll never really know why Blalock played T'Pol the way she did or why Nimoy portrayed Spock the way he did. There are too many possibilities. One assumption is as valid as another.