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Original BSG: "Gun on Ice Planet Zero"

Wingsley

Commodore
Commodore
This thread is devoted to the original Battlestar Galactica TV series and novels (ca. 1978-79).

Specifically, this thread discusses the BSG episode "Gun on Ice Planet Zero", which was novelized (loosely) as "The Cylon Death Machine". As I recall, this episode was criticized as being Glen Larson's plagiarized "The Guns of Navarone", "The Dirty Dozen" and at least one arctic adventure movie to make pulp sic fi for 1970s TV. I don't doubt there is some truth to this, and that Larson, whom Harlan Ellison nick-named "Glen Larseny", may have even lifted elements of Star Wars and Cecil B. Demille's The Ten Commandments to form Galactica in the first place.

The having been said, I think that the bigger issues with the original BSG were that the concept and stories were half-baked, that production values obviously suffered when an episode was hurriedly thrown together, and that this story in particular would have had promise if it had been left in the oven for a little while longer. As indirect evidence, I offer up Stargate SG-1 as an example of a conceptually similar series that obviously was better written and better-developed for the long-term.

One of the big criticisms of this story is that it did not make sense for the Galactica and her fugitive fleet to fall prey to a planetoid-based beam weapon; that space is vast and the notion of being "herded" into a "safe passage" made no sense. It also seemed silly that the beams were randomly firing into space, hitting nothing but still exploding.

Just recently, I visited NBC's web-site (from what I can see, at least some of the original series is still streaming there, although the streaming mechanism is quirky and prone to breakdowns in the stream) and watched this two-parter from the fall on '78. Despite some obvious bloopers and blunders, this show was not as bad as its critics insist.

Is it possible for a space fleet to be "herded" into a "safe passage"? Is there any phenomenon in space that would lend itself to this kind of trap? I say there is, and we can see examples from Earth. Less than a year after BSG went off the air, Cosmos by Carl Sagan provided some clues, and modern astronomy seems to back them up.

If, say, Commander Adama's fleet encountered several Cylon outposts and patrols in the neighborhood of a large nebula or "stellar nursery" or just a basic dark dust cloud, conditions would be perfect for a fugitive space fleet to seek either refuge or an escape route by passing through. If the ice-planetoid of Arcta were situated in a huge asteroid field within such a dark cloud, and Cylon snipers were taking occasional pot-shots to continue pressuring Adama, following an open corridor might be seen as worth the risk if the fleet were seeking an escape.

Such clouds, as is the case with the Crab Nebula or the great cloud formation that contains the Horsehead Nebula, can be vast themselves. They can be several lightyears across. They can also be rich in organic molecules and hydrogen as well as other useful materials that a fugitive space fleet may find useful.

The biggest issue for me was the notion that the Ravashol Pulsar weapon is a fixed installation on a mountain located on the planetoid Arcta. If this were the case, Arcta's rotation might render the weapon useless at least part of the time. But that would depend on the orientation of Arcta's axis relative to the "safe passage". If the mountain were located near one of Arcta's poles, and the axis pointed toward the "passage", it would be like a sentinel there.

As for the notion of the Ravashol Pulsar's beams being shot into the corridor, missing the fleet, but still exploding nearby: What if the beams were hitting nearby asteroids?

I actually liked the idea of a hit-team staffed with a Colonial prison gang, even if that angle didn't really develop in the TV version of the story. The only unbearable part of the story was Boxey and Muffit. Take them out and you might have had extra airtime to develop the other characters.
 
Wingsley, you're dumping on one of my favorite series.

Let us stipulate for the record that your entire first paragraph is essentially true. Big whoop. Science fiction in general is a den of thievery. SG-1 stole from trek on a semi-regular basis. Star Wars is just Lucas's Flash Gordon. Star Trek lifted stuff from Forbidden Planet, The Enemy Below, 2001, The Tempest, Sherlock Holmes and Peter Freaking Pan.

So "Gun" is "The Guns of Navarone." Fine. I like both the movie and he episodes, so I have no problem with that. and even if I didn't like them, I see no need to devote an entire thread to slamming just one OldBSG story.
 
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I watched the original BSG(1978-1980) as a boy back then first-run on ABC and enjoyed it.
The planetoid-based beam weapon was sort of re-used on a planet in the Star Wars:The Force Awakens.:shrug:
 
Much sci-fi is actually based on other stories. For example TOS Balance of Terror is practically a re-telling of The Enemy Below.

The problems with the original Galactica series stem from the fact that Larson wanted to make a few two- or three-part TV stories, but Universal changed their mind instead wanting a full series. Dykstra had done enough effects to easily handle what Larson originally intended, but they had to be re-used a lot for a weekly show, while many of the scripts were rushed. Some cast members even commented that they were given pages of scripts on the day, and more than once given pages for scenes they'd already filmed. Also, the suits wanted some changes to make it more kiddie-friendly. Thus the Cylons became robots rather than the lizard creatures in armour they were intended to be, and a lot of the dire situation such as food shortages and radiation poisoning (which originally Serena was going to be dying of), along with Cassiopeia's original occupation of Socialator (i.e. hooker), were jettisoned, while Boxey and Muffet were not originally planned to be in the show at all.

Saga Of A Star World shows the direction that Larson wanted the show to take. All people tend to remember is the space casino, but forget the scenes of desperation in the underbelly of the Rising Star, and the Ovions feeding Colonists to their young.
 
Ah, one of my all-time favorite series. Been too long since there's been a good conversation about it here.

The new feature film is supposedly still happening, based on TOS. They have writers and producers and a settlement of ownership from the Larson estate after his death. Just hoping THIS time something comes of it other than just empty promises.

As for rehashed ideas, there are apparently six plots in basic storytelling. Just different ways of telling them. The enjoyment comes in the quality of the retelling.
 
I just recently rewatched the whole season of Battlestar Galactica. I noticed something I didn't realize, it seem to become very serialized in the last half of the season. I'm wondering if that worked against it back then. It seemed like everything was made so that it could eventually be syndicated and stripped in any order and that wouldn't fly with them referring to ongoing events, like Baltar's in jail, Baltar tries to escape, they use his fighter to sneak onto a basestar and so on. And that's just one thing that happens. I think the production values really picked up towards the end, too.

Anyway, I love this show. It's too bad it was only one season, but I'm happy I got that.
 
I just recently rewatched the whole season of Battlestar Galactica. I noticed something I didn't realize, it seem to become very serialized in the last half of the season. I'm wondering if that worked against it back then. It seemed like everything was made so that it could eventually be syndicated and stripped in any order and that wouldn't fly with them referring to ongoing events, like Baltar's in jail, Baltar tries to escape, they use his fighter to sneak onto a basestar and so on. And that's just one thing that happens. I think the production values really picked up towards the end, too.
Anyway, I love this show. It's too bad it was only one season, but I'm happy I got that.
Agree. BSG (1978-1979) was good series that ABC should have renewed for a real second season because BSGalactica:1980 (1980-80) just did not continue it. Albeit, the pilot multi-part episode "Galactica Discovers Earth" and the final "Return Of Starbuck" episode[which actually felt like a BSG 1978-79 episode] were the best part IMHO.
http://epguides.com/Galactica1980/
 
Saga Of A Star World shows the direction that Larson wanted the show to take. All people tend to remember is the space casino, but forget the scenes of desperation in the underbelly of the Rising Star, and the Ovions feeding Colonists to their young.

not to mention Baltar's original fate.
 
When I watched the pilot on Netflix, they didn't show Baltar killed and there was an epilogue scene partially "reused" from the second episode that showed the Imperious Leader saying that they could now tolerate humans as the Cylons were now the undisputedly most powerful in the universe. I really did not remember that part at all, only having the movie version on VHS and DVD.

I'm not sure how it would have worked, but I think that the original movie had too much ground to cover sufficiently. We really didn't get to see much at all of Colonial life before it was destroyed. Then there were so many things happening rapidly. One thing in particular that annoyed me last time I watched it on Netflix, there was this really good scene with Adama discussing the plight of the people and what they can do and there's this abrupt cut to Starbuck messing around with Cassie. There was a few things that seemed to be rushed like that that brought it down from what it should have been. I was also bothered by how they seemed to only rescue Cassie from the Ovions and no one else.


One thing I'm really curious about it what was Baltar's true intentions in Lost Planet of the Gods, did he really intend Adama to topple the Cylon Empire or was it just as assumed, a trap. I know Adama didn't buy it for a second, but unless it's just because John Calicos is such a great actor, Baltar really seemed sincere about double crossing them. Plus, while they didn't kill him after all, it was pretty close even in the revised version. I'm thinking that Baltar had no problem betraying his own nation, therefore he wouldn't have any trouble betraying the Cylons, especially after they broached the original agreement that his colony was to be spared.



BTW, there's a wiki, if you want to read it.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(TOS)
 
It's been theorized that the Galactica and the Rag Tag Fleet uses Alderson Drives for their FTL. This would explain why the fleet is poking around star systems and planets at sublight and prone to attack from a planet-mounted cannon.

From Wiki:

The Alderson drive is not, strictly, a faster-than-light drive: it can more nearly be likened to a device able to use a form of wormhole, whose entry and exit 'Alderson points' are at either end of an 'Alderson tramline'. Alderson points are difficult to find. Alderson tramlines form between points of equipotential thermonuclear flux located near stars. Not all star pairs form Alderson tramlines, and not all those tramlines which do form are large enough to take a spaceship. This means that in order to travel between star systems, it is frequently necessary to carry out a series of Alderson jumps interspersed with periods of travel between Alderson points in normal space. Alderson tramlines, when they form, form instantaneously, and travel along them appears to take no elapsed time. However, sentient beings who travel using an Alderson drive experience "jump shock", a temporary period of extreme disorientation immediately following an Alderson jump. Computers are affected for an even longer period of time, making it difficult to automate spacecraft after a jump. Spacecraft are thus vulnerable to attack until their occupants recover from jump shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderson_drive
 
When I watched the pilot on Netflix, they didn't show Baltar killed and there was an epilogue scene partially "reused" from the second episode that showed the Imperious Leader saying that they could now tolerate humans as the Cylons were now the undisputedly most powerful in the universe. I really did not remember that part at all, only having the movie version on VHS and DVD.

I'm not sure how it would have worked, but I think that the original movie had too much ground to cover sufficiently. We really didn't get to see much at all of Colonial life before it was destroyed. Then there were so many things happening rapidly. One thing in particular that annoyed me last time I watched it on Netflix, there was this really good scene with Adama discussing the plight of the people and what they can do and there's this abrupt cut to Starbuck messing around with Cassie. There was a few things that seemed to be rushed like that that brought it down from what it should have been. I was also bothered by how they seemed to only rescue Cassie from the Ovions and no one else.


One thing I'm really curious about it what was Baltar's true intentions in Lost Planet of the Gods, did he really intend Adama to topple the Cylon Empire or was it just as assumed, a trap. I know Adama didn't buy it for a second, but unless it's just because John Calicos is such a great actor, Baltar really seemed sincere about double crossing them. Plus, while they didn't kill him after all, it was pretty close even in the revised version. I'm thinking that Baltar had no problem betraying his own nation, therefore he wouldn't have any trouble betraying the Cylons, especially after they broached the original agreement that his colony was to be spared.



BTW, there's a wiki, if you want to read it.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(TOS)

In the movie version the Centurion that draws his sword actually swings it and the movie cuts just before we actually see Baltar's head severed.

3533660196_1x.jpg


The story itself is quite fascinating at the end. There is a possibility that the new Imperius Leader was indeed sincere in his belief that the fleeing Colonials were no longer a threat so was willing to let them go. Baltar may have genuinely wished to lead the Galactica to Cylon in vengeance for the betrayal and destruction of his home colony, then after his plan failed at Kobol and he was abandoned by Adama, he then returned to the Imperius Leader telling them that the humans would not accept peace, which led to the Cylons continuing their pursuit.
 
Much sci-fi is actually based on other stories. For example TOS Balance of Terror is practically a re-telling of The Enemy Below.

The problems with the original Galactica series stem from the fact that Larson wanted to make a few two- or three-part TV stories, but Universal changed their mind instead wanting a full series. Dykstra had done enough effects to easily handle what Larson originally intended, but they had to be re-used a lot for a weekly show, while many of the scripts were rushed. Some cast members even commented that they were given pages of scripts on the day, and more than once given pages for scenes they'd already filmed. Also, the suits wanted some changes to make it more kiddie-friendly. Thus the Cylons became robots rather than the lizard creatures in armour they were intended to be, and a lot of the dire situation such as food shortages and radiation poisoning (which originally Serena was going to be dying of), along with Cassiopeia's original occupation of Socialator (i.e. hooker), were jettisoned, while Boxey and Muffet were not originally planned to be in the show at all.

Saga Of A Star World shows the direction that Larson wanted the show to take. All people tend to remember is the space casino, but forget the scenes of desperation in the underbelly of the Rising Star, and the Ovions feeding Colonists to their young.

This, essentially. The only thing missing from the second paragraph is the speculation about the conversation Glen Larson had with the ABC programming head on Monday morning after the premiere, which many believe went like this:

ABC: Good morning, Glen. Great show last night.
LARSON: Thanks. What do you want?
ABC: So the next episode is on its way here to be shown next week, right?
LARSON: Next episode? (long pause) Let me get back to you. (hangs up, calls his chief of production) Contact the Galactica cast. ABC wants a series, and they want it now.
 
It's been theorized that the Galactica and the Rag Tag Fleet uses Alderson Drives for their FTL. This would explain why the fleet is poking around star systems and planets at sublight and prone to attack from a planet-mounted cannon.

From Wiki:

The Alderson drive is not, strictly, a faster-than-light drive: it can more nearly be likened to a device able to use a form of wormhole, whose entry and exit 'Alderson points' are at either end of an 'Alderson tramline'. Alderson points are difficult to find. Alderson tramlines form between points of equipotential thermonuclear flux located near stars. Not all star pairs form Alderson tramlines, and not all those tramlines which do form are large enough to take a spaceship. This means that in order to travel between star systems, it is frequently necessary to carry out a series of Alderson jumps interspersed with periods of travel between Alderson points in normal space. Alderson tramlines, when they form, form instantaneously, and travel along them appears to take no elapsed time. However, sentient beings who travel using an Alderson drive experience "jump shock", a temporary period of extreme disorientation immediately following an Alderson jump. Computers are affected for an even longer period of time, making it difficult to automate spacecraft after a jump. Spacecraft are thus vulnerable to attack until their occupants recover from jump shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderson_drive


Let me add to that a bit more. Say this was the only planet around a star that had a disk of debris. The planet had cleared out its orbit--but some Cylons were waiting in the trojan points ahead and behind the planet--and had filled in the rest of the disk.

Both the drive and the planetary debris would indeed force a close pass of the planet.

I think that was actually a mock-up of Skylab.
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Gun_on_Ice_Planet_Zero,_Part_I

No--that was The Hand of God now that I think of it.

You know--I could see that being a modified Stargate installation for Cheyenne Mountain
 
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