Malcolm

[Jedi Marso]

T'Pol only limited to an advisor would've gotten rid of a lot of dramatic tension and weakened her position a lot. I think T'Pol was the more interesting choice for first officer.
I'd still liked Malcolm to have had a bigger role. TPTB teased that one of their characters may have been gay. Reed should've been gay, ENT was ST's last chance to do a gay character while it was still a groundbreaking issue instead of it now being something that Trek is decades behind on.

Tired of this topic. Nurse Chapel was in love with Spock, Kirk screwed all sorts of alien babes, and Trip and T'Pol had a half-Vulcan cloned love child. Worf + Deanna. Not to mention Trip getting pregnant and Phlox having 3 wives and not caring if any of them slept with other people. Simple gayness between humans in the far future is positively tame compared to this stuff. What about nu-kirk being in bed with two cat-chicks with tails? Get TF over it already. ST isn't way behind- it's light years ahead. Personally I can't understand why humans want to go to Risa and screw some alien with a weird forehead. To me that's far more repugnant than being gay.

 

[Nerys Myk]

nothing like a lil bit of retcon to explain why the Vulcan doesn't act like a Vulcan

Not really. As I said, the Vulcan in ENT fall well with in the parameters set in TOS. But like most Vulcans, aren't Spock.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Not really. As I said, the Vulcan in ENT fall well with in the parameters set in TOS. But like most Vulcans, aren't Spock.

I think you just want to argue.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think you just want to argue.

Why would you say that? I'm just using my observations of Vulcan behavior to form an opinion, which I'm expressing.
Vulcans in TOS have exhibited the same or similar traits to those in ENT. They can be petty, manipulative and self serving.

 

[T'Arwen]

I think you just want to argue.

I suppose BillJ, Nyotarules and others who have similar opinions to Nerys just want to argue too.

Guess who else wants to do the same? Brannon Braga. This episode of the Warp 5 podcast is called An Extrapolation for a reason. To paraphrase Braga, he took some of the unsavory aspects of Vulcans he saw in TOS and put them out there on ENT (I can't remember how far into the podcast that was). Granted some of it was exaggerated but nothing we didn't see from T'Pau and Sarek.
http://trek.fm/warp-five/2

 

[borgboy]

I agree that ENT's Vulcans weren't dissimilar to the more negative and intolerant attitudes we saw from Vulcans in TOS.
I've read that there were plans to reveal T'Pol was half Romulan if ENT had continued into a fifth season.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, it's a TV show. It's supposed to do things for dramatic purposes.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I suppose BillJ, Nyotarules and others who have similar opinions to Nerys just want to argue too.

Guess who else wants to do the same? Brannon Braga. This episode of the Warp 5 podcast is called An Extrapolation for a reason. To paraphrase Braga, he took some of the unsavory aspects of Vulcans he saw in TOS and put them out there on ENT (I can't remember how far into the podcast that was). Granted some of it was exaggerated but nothing we didn't see from T'Pau and Sarek.
http://trek.fm/warp-five/2

Exactly, the negative aspects were exaggerated in T'Pol. For me, she stretched the boundaries of what ST had told us about Vulcan behavior.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Exactly...it was exaggerated. I never said the Vulcans never acted like prats. I said I think T'Pol, in general, acted too much like a prat to believable as a Vulcan. The negative aspects of Vulcans were played up for dramatic purposes.

Not sure I find her any more prattish than Spock. Is there a specific example you could site?

 

[T'Arwen]

Exactly, the negative aspects were exaggerated in T'Pol. For me, she stretched the boundaries of what ST had told us about Vulcan behavior.

But it was over 100 years before TOS. Just 50 years ago, it was acceptable to be openly racist. If ENT was going backwards in time, why wouldn't Vulcans be more racist and prattish?

Not saying you're one of them but I find it amazing that some fans complain ENT introduce species that don't get mentioned again. Yet they either forget or are ignorant of stuff that happened in real life's past.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I agree that ENT's Vulcans weren't dissimilar to the more negative and intolerant attitudes we saw from Vulcans in TOS.
I've read that there were plans to reveal T'Pol was half Romulan if ENT had continued into a fifth season.

That makes sense as to why she was not very Vulcan.

 

[JeffinOakland]

But it was over 100 years before TOS. Just 50 years ago, it was acceptable to be openly racist. If ENT was going backwards in time, why wouldn't Vulcans be more racist and prattish?

We can't make assumptions about that which was never explained.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've read that there were plans to reveal T'Pol was half Romulan if ENT had continued into a fifth season.

Which is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. It's not like there is a genetic component at play. T'Pol was raised in Vulcan society by a Vulcan mother. Why would having a Romulan parent change anything? Spock managed to be a better Vulcan than most with a human mother in the same house.

 

[borgboy]

I don't know where they would've gone with the Romulan storyline. I suspect that would've been used to have T'Pol explore Romulan society. Perhaps the resolution to the story would've been that T'Pol would decide that it didn't matter and she'd reject her Romulan heritage.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But it was over 100 years before TOS. Just 50 years ago, it was acceptable to be openly racist. If ENT was going backwards in time, why wouldn't Vulcans be more racist and prattish?

Not saying you're one of them but I find it amazing that some fans complain ENT introduce species that don't get mentioned again. Yet they either forget or are ignorant of stuff that happened in real life's past.

We can't make assumptions about that which was never explained.

Never explained? Wasn't there a whole arc on it? And in Amok Time, T'Pau, a member of that generation, was racist towards humans. And do Vulcans get any more prattish than T'Pring?

 

[T'Arwen]

We can't make assumptions about that which was never explained.

Isn't ENT attempting to explain what Vulcans were like before TOS? So humans can evolve over time but not Vulcans. Got it.

Which is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. It's not like there is a genetic component at play. T'Pol was raised in Vulcan society by a Vulcan mother. Why would having a Romulan parent change anything? Spock managed to be a better Vulcan than most with a human mother in the same house.

I hate that idea too. Why can't T'Pol be emotional just because she's different? I don't think Trek has enough range of personalities within alien species.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Why would you say that? I'm just using my observations of Vulcan behavior to form an opinion, which I'm expressing.
Vulcans in TOS have exhibited the same or similar traits to those in ENT. They can be petty, manipulative and self serving.

True. Sarek in Journey to Babel is a perfect arrogant bastard and a double bastard to his own son. In the movies it's more of the same, complete down to every Vulcan you seen in ST IV.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Never explained? Wasn't there a whole arc on it? And in Amok Time, T'Pau, a member of that generation, was racist towards humans. And do Vulcans get any more prattish than T'Pring?

The arc seemed like a bit of a retcon to compensate for making the Vulcans of ENT so prattish. Also, the idea of making T'Pol half Romulan would seem to reinforce my point that she was a bit of a prat even for a Vulcan.

 

[eyeresist]

I hope you're trying to be clever because if you aren't you misunderstand the Vulcans from TOS through VOY

What about Amok Time?

We can't make assumptions about that which was never explained.

But it was explained - in ENT.

Interesting. I would place Travis and Malcolm as being more "jock" than Trip. And Archer was a jock, since he play Water Polo.

No, water polo = nerd.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The arc seemed like a bit of a retcon to compensate for making the Vulcans of ENT so prattish. Also, the idea of making T'Pol half Romulan would seem to reinforce my point that she was a bit of a prat even for a Vulcan.

How would being a Romulan make her more prattish? Is prat in the Romulan genetic code?
I'd still like to see an example of this extreme prattism, you keep mentioning.