Legal situation concerning the new TV series

[JonnyQuest037]

Or simply say that we have absolutely no idea how old Pike is in "The Cage".

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.

We don't really know if McGivers recognized him or researched him once she got back to the Enterprise. The latter seems likely, as she didn't appear to recognize him on the Botany Bay or even during that first scene in sickbay.

I'd say that her not recognizing him seems unlikely considering this.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

This seems rather unlikely to me as the Eugenic Wars happened ~2.5 centuries before STID and Space Seed. I wouldn't recognize any important person from the 18th century (though I'm not a historian)

Benjamin Franklin.
George Washington.
Johann Sebastian Bach.
(among others).

 

[Dayton Ward]

I'd say that her not recognizing him seems unlikely considering this.

But that came after the boarding party, and Khan being brought to the Enterprise. Or, are we saying she just happened to have been painting the guy before they found the Botany Bay? How lucky was that? Could've been awkward if he'd been a white British guy.

And yeah, we might recognize historical figures if they were wandering around in period dress/etc. Give them modern clothes and hairstyles, and would it be so easy?

 

[Greg Cox]

This seems rather unlikely to me as the Eugenic Wars happened ~2.5 centuries before STID and Space Seed. I wouldn't recognize any important person from the 18th century (though I'm not a historian)

Depends on the historical personage. Kirk certainly had no trouble recognizing Abraham Lincoln.

But, yes, it's not clear from the episode when exactly Marla put the pieces together. I'm inclined to think that the possibility occurred to her early on, maybe even aboard the Botany Bay, but she had to do some homework to verify her suspicions.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But that came after the boarding party, and Khan being brought to the Enterprise. Or, are we saying she just happened to have been painting the guy before they found the Botany Bay? How lucky was that?

Considering that the painting was sitting on a table, covered by a cloth, and not drying on an easel, I'd say that it likely wasn't something that Marla was currently working on.

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But, yes, it's not clear from the episode when exactly Marla put the pieces together. I'm inclined to think that the possibility occurred to her early on, maybe even aboard the Botany Bay, but she had to do some homework to verify her suspicions.

I'd say she probably started to suspect aboard the Botany Bay, as she stated that Khan was "probably a Sikh" when he had no beard. Weird conclusion to come to unless you're already familiar with a clean-shaven Sikh...

 

[Dayton Ward]

Of course, that begs the question of why she didn't say anything earlier. Of course, his identity has to be revealed later for the story, but it certainly doesn't do McGivers any favors so far as being the ship's "historian."

 

[Greg Cox]

The other big question about Marla is why they never bothered to make use of her on various occasions when a historian might have been handy, like maybe in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"?

And how come Marla the historian didn't want to meet Captain John Christopher? I guess we have to assume that she hadn't signed aboard the Enterprise at that point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The other big question about Marla is why they never bothered to make use of her on various occasions when a historian might have been handy, like maybe in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"?

And how come Marla the historian didn't want to meet Captain John Christopher? I guess we have to assume that she hadn't signed aboard the Enterprise at that point.

Paintings don't paint them selves.

 

[Nerys Myk]

MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.

Which means Pike was what? 21 or 22 when the Cage took place? Cadet to Captain version 1.0!

 

[Markonian]

Benjamin Franklin.
George Washington.
Johann Sebastian Bach.
(among others).

You and I know these people from history. We've seen paintings.

But would you recognise them on the street, dressed in suit and tie or as hipsters?

 

[Jinn]

Depends on the historical personage. Kirk certainly had no trouble recognizing Abraham Lincoln.

I tend to ignore everything cultural from that episode as it doesn't works very well with what was later established about the UFP.

The other big question about Marla is why they never bothered to make use of her on various occasions when a historian might have been handy, like maybe in "Tomorrow is Yesterday"?

And how come Marla the historian didn't want to meet Captain John Christopher? I guess we have to assume that she hadn't signed aboard the Enterprise at that point.

Maybe Starfleet noticed that the Enterprise had way more time travel adventures than any other ship, so DTI assigned them a Historian. Then "Space Seed" happened.

 

[Leto_II]

^ Could be, although judging from the tone of Kirk's remarks when reminded of Marla at the beginning of "Space Seed," it's probable that the Ship's Historian doesn't see action all that often during the 5YM ("Here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change").

 

[Greg Cox]

You and I know these people from history. We've seen paintings.

But would you recognise them on the street, dressed in suit and tie or as hipsters?

But Marla didn't spot Khan randomly in the street, in 23rd century garb. She found him in suspended animation aboard a centuries-old sleeper ship from roughly the same era as the Eugenics Wars. Possibly his attire provided clues to his origins as well.

"Red jumpsuits for the men? Skimpy gold outfits for the women? Looks like the 1990s, circa the Eugenics Wars, to me."

 

[Markonian]

Would you recognise Napoleon or Washington if you found them on an 18th century sleeper ship, with their soldiers, in their bright garb and funny wigs?

 

[The Wormhole]

You and I know these people from history. We've seen paintings.

But would you recognise them on the street, dressed in suit and tie or as hipsters?

"Hey, nice beard, man. Got the whole Abraham Lincoln thing going on?"
"I beg your pardon, sir?"
"The beard, makes you look like Abraham Lincoln."
"I, sir, am Abraham Lincoln. President of the United States, and Master Vampire Hunter."

 

[Greg Cox]

Would you recognise Napoleon or Washington if you found them on an 18th century sleeper ship, with their soldiers, in their bright garb and funny wigs?

I might entertain the notion that there was somebody historically important aboard and note that their leader bore a suspicious resemblance to that guy on the dollar bill.

And that short, imperious French commander from the 18th century, the one who looks like the guy in all the paintings and Napoleon movies? Hmm, I wonder . ...

I mean, sure, I wouldn't have a clue what Patrick Henry or John Quincy Adams looked like, but Benjamin Franklin or Mark Twain or Robert E. Lee? I'd know what they were supposed to look like at least.

(I once spotted an off-duty Franklin impersonator hanging out and drinking a Coke at a Philadelphia train station. Not for a second did I wonder who he was supposed to be.)

And remember, Marla isn't relying on old, unreliable paintings and statues. There's presumably no shortage of photos and film footage of Khan, despite the war. The same way we have actual photos of Civil War generals and politicians.

A lot depends on your particular fields of expertise, of course. Would I recognize Disraeli or Henry Clay if I saw them in the right context? Probably not. Mary Shelley, or Bram Stoker, or Edgar Alan Poe . . . absolutely.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which means Pike was what? 21 or 22 when the Cage took place? Cadet to Captain version 1.0!

Perhaps Mendez was referring to how old Pike was when they met. Meaning, Pike was the same age then as Kirk was "now" (i.e. in "The Menagerie"'s present day).

 

[Kor]

Or, to a guy as old as Mendez, everybody from their twenties to their forties was "about the same age."

Kor

 

[Christopher]

Well, I was focusing not so much on the casting as how the character shifts from one supposedly born in India to a British guy...you know, in a timeline that supposedly diverges 250 or so years after he's born.

The British occupied India for centuries, and many British people were born in India (Rudyard Kipling for one). I'm sure there are still British-descended people living in India today. Really, a British Khan makes a ton more sense than a Mexican-accented Khan.

Maybe Starfleet noticed that the Enterprise had way more time travel adventures than any other ship, so DTI assigned them a Historian. Then "Space Seed" happened.

One, the DTI is a civilian agency, not Starfleet. Two, at least per the books, it didn't exist until 2270.

 

[Jinn]

Maybe Starfleet noticed that the Enterprise had way more time travel adventures than any other ship, so DTI assigned them a Historian. Then "Space Seed" happened.

This quotewas never meant to be taken serious.