Lori Petty was one of the best things about this season. Loves her flashback episode.
Netflix Presents: Orange is the New Black
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Lori Petty was one of the best things about this season. Loves her flashback episode.
She has been amazing. I'm not done with the season yet (five episodes left I think) but I have seen the Lolly flashback episode. It really made me feel for her and for all those who end up in the prison system due in large part to a mental illness. It's frustrating to know that we don't all have a better way of understanding and dealing with mental illness. It feels like we punish people for the way that they were born, something out of their control. This episode really got to me.
I also agree that this show is veering further away from comedy, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just noticeable this season. Some really dark issues have been addressed so far.
My brother is autistic and my family has a long history with mental illness, so Lolly's episode really resonated with me (as does another episode which you haven't gotten to yet). Both her and Suzanne are my favorite characters partially because of how their mental illnesses are explored on the show.
I finished the season this afternoon.
This really was an amazing season, some of the best television I've seen in a really long time. It was entertaining, as usual, but it also explored so many important, relevant, controversial, and deep societal topics in a really intelligent and heart-wrenching way. I really appreciate a show that can make me think, examine my own morality, and laugh at the same time.
I don't even know what to say. So depressing and chilling, because it felt so very close to reality. I really don't know what Daya is going to do . I know they need to bring viewers back for the next season, but I hate it when seasons end on cliffhangers like this. We don't get closure for a whole year. At least last year ended on a more positive note. And even though I didn't like the season with V, at least that one had a satisfying ending as well. This ending just feels frustrating.
This really was an amazing season, some of the best television I've seen in a really long time. It was entertaining, as usual, but it also explored so many important, relevant, controversial, and deep societal topics in a really intelligent and heart-wrenching way. I really appreciate a show that can make me think, examine my own morality, and laugh at the same time.
I finished the season a few minutes ago.
Definitely better than season three, a strong season overall. It's the kind of show that manages to have dark satirical topics but also a lot of comedy. The Lolly episode was great, and it's sad that you think she could still be a reporter if she had gotten real help when she first started hearing voices.
Caputo is an interesting character. He's a guy who knows the difference between right and wrong and is emotionally affected by it, but still will always choose his own interests over his morality. There aren't a lot of people on TV like that but most people in real life are like that. On TV most characters are either morally driven characters who do the right thing at the end or evil bastards who don't give a crap. Caputo acts like real humans act. Caring about right and wrong to the point that it affects their bottom line.
This season probably drew more comedy moments from Nazis than any show since Seinfeld.
Definitely better than season three, a strong season overall. It's the kind of show that manages to have dark satirical topics but also a lot of comedy. The Lolly episode was great, and it's sad that you think she could still be a reporter if she had gotten real help when she first started hearing voices.
Caputo is an interesting character. He's a guy who knows the difference between right and wrong and is emotionally affected by it, but still will always choose his own interests over his morality. There aren't a lot of people on TV like that but most people in real life are like that. On TV most characters are either morally driven characters who do the right thing at the end or evil bastards who don't give a crap. Caputo acts like real humans act. Caring about right and wrong to the point that it affects their bottom line.
The way they staged the killing is also cool. The one who does the killing wasn't the psychopath, it was the one who tried to report the psychopath who we were made to sympathize with. The victim is one of the most likable people in the prison who committed the least serious crime. Those entire last two episodes are totally gutwrenching.
This season probably drew more comedy moments from Nazis than any show since Seinfeld.
Wow what a season. Much better than last year's offering.
Finished this morning at 5 am, i just couldn't stop watching the last few episodes because it was so good. The rest in spoilercode.
Oh Man.. where to start.
The show started off in a quite funny way, characters acting funny, Piper trying to be badass and enjoying the "power", Caputo hooking up with Purchasing Lady (forgot her name already), Piper accidentally starting a White Power movement and so forth but somewhere in the middle of the season it got progressively darker and more dramatic.
I think it came when they branded Piper. That was intense beyond belief and something you'd expect from some hardcore maximum security prison but not with the Ladies. The acting was fantastic in the scene and the realization what the branding meant was horrifying, especially because we know that Piper is anything but a Nazi.
We fnally learn whan Suzanne did to be sent to prison and it was shocking. We first see her at work in a people's position which seems to ideally suit her because she genuinely loves people and it shows. However when she invited that boy to her appartment and he accepted i knew it was to end in tragedy. I doubted it would have anything sexual in it, that's not Suzanne but the reality was even worse. She doesn't comprehend that she comes off very intense and that it's too much for the boy and events unfold that were hard to watch.
Others had amazing storylines too.. Haley forming a bond with Lolly (who was amazing this season, hats off to Lori Petty) and then finally breaking and admitting himself to psychololgical care and treatment was just the result of years of mistreatment. One of the few good guys broke.
Caputo seems to be the last good guy left and i was at first happy when he connected to Purchasing Lady (who was quite hot i might add). However as with everything in the show it soon turned sour when he realized how de-humanizing the company is which culminated in that Correcticon episode. I laughed first about the name because the concept seemed so absurd but when realization set in it seemed like a horrible concept and a brutal criticism of the US prison system (i don't know if there are are actually such conventions in the US but i wouldn't be surprised in the least).
There are only two things that didn't work for me in the show.. Judy King and the relationship in the show between Poussey and Sos.
I don't know what purpose King served.. she was annoying, manipulative and just a plain uninteresting character. She served to create a little friction with the inmates because of her special treatment and that was it.. she was on her way out when the riot started so i don't see her point.
The next is the relationship and i didn't like it because i want to punch Soso in the face. She was ok in small doses in previous seasons for comedy but this one was hardcore annoying as she got to display her full pseudo-intellectualism and i hate this kind of person.
The real kicker of the show were the last two episodes as everything reached boiling point. What started off as a peaceful protest culminated in a full blown riot. Poor Poussey, always the sunshine and trying to keep her head down not causing problems and she becomes victim of n accident, coincidentally initiated by the one guard who really is a decent guy and way in over his head. The whole scene started off as the quintessential "O Captain my Captain!" moment though with an even more tragic background and quickly spiralled out of control. The last episode was even more heartbreaking as we see innocent Poussey having the night of her life and her whole future in front of her but we know what her future had in store (and at one point she even unwittingly crossed paths with the guy who kills her. The actress did a fantastic job displaying her joy at life as she stumbles from one event to the other, i will miss her character.
The riot is fully understandable but i don't get why it is Daya who picks up the gun. She was lowkey this season and started to make wrong friends but it didn't seem she did it out of trying to get deeper into the group. I would understand if it were some of these stupid Nazi bitches or Marritza who has actually suffered under that psycho guard ( the scene with him doing the Gun to your Head game was horrific) I knew it would end badly when he got the gun inside the prison, that was for sure but i don't see why it was Daya.
The whole season was fantastic, almost every storyline was important to get us to the finale and paint the picture why everything happened. It was really well written and one of the strongest shows this year besides Game of Thrones. If they continue like this in the 3 seasons yet to come we will have an award contender on our hands, just not in the comedy category. [/SPOILER
The show started off in a quite funny way, characters acting funny, Piper trying to be badass and enjoying the "power", Caputo hooking up with Purchasing Lady (forgot her name already), Piper accidentally starting a White Power movement and so forth but somewhere in the middle of the season it got progressively darker and more dramatic.
I think it came when they branded Piper. That was intense beyond belief and something you'd expect from some hardcore maximum security prison but not with the Ladies. The acting was fantastic in the scene and the realization what the branding meant was horrifying, especially because we know that Piper is anything but a Nazi.
We fnally learn whan Suzanne did to be sent to prison and it was shocking. We first see her at work in a people's position which seems to ideally suit her because she genuinely loves people and it shows. However when she invited that boy to her appartment and he accepted i knew it was to end in tragedy. I doubted it would have anything sexual in it, that's not Suzanne but the reality was even worse. She doesn't comprehend that she comes off very intense and that it's too much for the boy and events unfold that were hard to watch.
Others had amazing storylines too.. Haley forming a bond with Lolly (who was amazing this season, hats off to Lori Petty) and then finally breaking and admitting himself to psychololgical care and treatment was just the result of years of mistreatment. One of the few good guys broke.
Caputo seems to be the last good guy left and i was at first happy when he connected to Purchasing Lady (who was quite hot i might add). However as with everything in the show it soon turned sour when he realized how de-humanizing the company is which culminated in that Correcticon episode. I laughed first about the name because the concept seemed so absurd but when realization set in it seemed like a horrible concept and a brutal criticism of the US prison system (i don't know if there are are actually such conventions in the US but i wouldn't be surprised in the least).
There are only two things that didn't work for me in the show.. Judy King and the relationship in the show between Poussey and Sos.
I don't know what purpose King served.. she was annoying, manipulative and just a plain uninteresting character. She served to create a little friction with the inmates because of her special treatment and that was it.. she was on her way out when the riot started so i don't see her point.
The next is the relationship and i didn't like it because i want to punch Soso in the face. She was ok in small doses in previous seasons for comedy but this one was hardcore annoying as she got to display her full pseudo-intellectualism and i hate this kind of person.
The real kicker of the show were the last two episodes as everything reached boiling point. What started off as a peaceful protest culminated in a full blown riot. Poor Poussey, always the sunshine and trying to keep her head down not causing problems and she becomes victim of n accident, coincidentally initiated by the one guard who really is a decent guy and way in over his head. The whole scene started off as the quintessential "O Captain my Captain!" moment though with an even more tragic background and quickly spiralled out of control. The last episode was even more heartbreaking as we see innocent Poussey having the night of her life and her whole future in front of her but we know what her future had in store (and at one point she even unwittingly crossed paths with the guy who kills her. The actress did a fantastic job displaying her joy at life as she stumbles from one event to the other, i will miss her character.
The riot is fully understandable but i don't get why it is Daya who picks up the gun. She was lowkey this season and started to make wrong friends but it didn't seem she did it out of trying to get deeper into the group. I would understand if it were some of these stupid Nazi bitches or Marritza who has actually suffered under that psycho guard ( the scene with him doing the Gun to your Head game was horrific) I knew it would end badly when he got the gun inside the prison, that was for sure but i don't see why it was Daya.
The whole season was fantastic, almost every storyline was important to get us to the finale and paint the picture why everything happened. It was really well written and one of the strongest shows this year besides Game of Thrones. If they continue like this in the 3 seasons yet to come we will have an award contender on our hands, just not in the comedy category. [/SPOILER
What I really loved about Suzanne's flashback is what we see from her perspective. She understood the kid as an equal and a playmate, she didn't understand the nuance of our culture that an adult stranger can not just treat a young child as a playmate. The whole setup reminded me of the movie Repulsion, the sister leaving her emotionally troubled sister at home for a few days, thinking she can handle it, only the similar results took a different flavor.
I think the reason Daya was the one to pick up the gun is just that she was closest to it when it dropped. I also loved the scene where her mother was watching it unfold on TV and they said "A prisoner was killed" without saying her name, leaving her there worrying it was Daya that was killed.
I think the reason Daya was the one to pick up the gun is just that she was closest to it when it dropped. I also loved the scene where her mother was watching it unfold on TV and they said "A prisoner was killed" without saying her name, leaving her there worrying it was Daya that was killed.
I was reminded of Michael Jackson somehow who for the last years of his life had to battle child abuse allegations (which i think for the most part were money grab lawsuits). It was always rumored that Michael had a more child like mentality which is why he liked to hang out with children and built his own private amusement park. So i wouldn't rule it out that he found himself in the same situation as Suzanne not comprehending that it's at least weird for an adult to sleep in the same bed as a kid that's not your own. Suzanne's story is quite tragic as she never understood what was wrong and events just unfolded in a way that seemed criminal to the outside but in reality there was never any malicious intent on her part.
Concerning Daya it just doesn't add up.. she's not the hardcore criminal type and she's not dumb. She knows that the simple act of picking up the gun will have severe repercussions no matter if she actually threatened the guard (which she then did). It just came so sudden and is out of character for her in my view. As i said i could understand Maritza doing it as she had a real axe to grind with that psycho guard or any of the other hardcore criminal ladies.
The only reason i could see is that it is a spur of the moment thing, emotions running over and not thinking clearly but then it works because i don't think any of the viewers would have picked Daya if they knew the situation would come.
Concerning Daya it just doesn't add up.. she's not the hardcore criminal type and she's not dumb. She knows that the simple act of picking up the gun will have severe repercussions no matter if she actually threatened the guard (which she then did). It just came so sudden and is out of character for her in my view. As i said i could understand Maritza doing it as she had a real axe to grind with that psycho guard or any of the other hardcore criminal ladies.
The only reason i could see is that it is a spur of the moment thing, emotions running over and not thinking clearly but then it works because i don't think any of the viewers would have picked Daya if they knew the situation would come.
When i was watching season 4 i enjoyed the first half.. it was quite funny but business as usual (such as Piper accidentally starting a White Power gang) but in retrospect you can see how the writers slowly built up to the season finale by engineering events so that the characters were cornered more and more until it all exploded.
Piscatella, the hard ass guard captain, could have been more lenient sometimes so morale would stay up a bit more, the guards demeaning treatment of the women, that one uberpsycho guard, the whole situation with the overcrowding of the prison, the development of racial tensions etc.
It all lead to the situation they were in when it all came down in the last two episodes and it was just brilliant writing. I consider this season the second best this year after Game of Thrones season 6 which was brilliant (if GoT had the level of previous seasons i would have put Orange at least on the same level if not above).
So honestly this year these two shows were the highlight.. i enjoy several fall season shows but none came close to the quality of these two this year.
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Piscatella made Pornstache seem like a decent guy.
I posted this earlier regarding Daya:
Daya is an interesting choice because she's been low key this season, but she hasn't been completely absent. Her life has changed again now that her mother, Aleida, has left Litchfield and she's trying to fill that void. Aleida worried Daya would get sucked into the Dominican gang, hence why Aleida wanted Gloria to keep an eye on Daya. Daya picking up the gun is interesting because we don't know what she'll do. Will she kill Humps in order to prove herself to Maria or will she remember her mother's worries and back off? Don't forget, while she hasn't had issues with Humps in particular, she's had a lot of history with abusive CO's.
Daya is an interesting choice because she's been low key this season, but she hasn't been completely absent. Her life has changed again now that her mother, Aleida, has left Litchfield and she's trying to fill that void. Aleida worried Daya would get sucked into the Dominican gang, hence why Aleida wanted Gloria to keep an eye on Daya. Daya picking up the gun is interesting because we don't know what she'll do. Will she kill Humps in order to prove herself to Maria or will she remember her mother's worries and back off? Don't forget, while she hasn't had issues with Humps in particular, she's had a lot of history with abusive CO's.
I finally finished season 4 and no longer fear being spoiled so came to peek at this thread.
Technically spoilers abound in this post, but I'm trying to keep things generic enough to avoid spoiler tagging everything.
Themes I liked this year.
The simple fact that eventually we have to own our choices.
Something Judy King's short stay at Litchfield hasn't yet taught her.
"Something" that Piper's somewhat longer stay is finally starting to teach her.
I loved how quickly Frida and Red came to the conclusion that someone "should" die. Even more than that, I loved how it was Vause (the woman who turned in her own ex-girlfriend for a shorter sentence) was the one who kept trying to dissuade them from that decision.
Sister Ingalls may have had a smaller presence this year, but her storyline was all about standing up for her friend, something she didn't do enough for at the end of the last season.
Someone else stepping up this year was Gloria, who reached across the racial divide to try and right the wrong visited upon Sophia last season, even if it meant letting a pacifist nun mess up her face in a prison fight. All that stuff between Gloria, Alieda and Daya was to be "expected" since Gloria was Daya's 2nd mother, but watching Gloria chase her racial clique out of the salon and gently brush out Sophia's wig was inspiring.
Talking about small parts this year, my two fav nonprison characters returned this year, Piper's brother Cal and Sophia's wife. Crystal is such a badass!
I really liked watching Vause interact with people OTHER than Piper this season and Red / Alex was trumped only by Lolly / Alex, To see Red include Alex in the family meeting was a nice coda in the finale.
Talk about owning your choices, it was nice to see Red treat her prison daughter's season 4 drug addiction different this time BECAUSE of her failure with Tricia's addiction 3 seasons ago. "She's dead in the prison cemetery under a marker that spelled her name wrong." Talk about ignominy in death. Red knows she has to change her strategy to prevent another daughter from such a fate, and she did.
I liked how the "new" inmates are only seen in "the present" without back stories / flashbacks.
I liked how the power that corrupted the privileged upper middle class Piper also corrupted the less fortunate Maria who not only visited violence upon Piper but threatened same upon her own racial classmate.
The Jewish conversion of Black Cindy to Tovah was played for laughs when they gave her a Muslim cube-mate, but I laughed more when Judy was more upset at Cindy's religion than her race. (To be fair, I also laughed at the Scientology comments and immediately wondered what Laura Prepon thought about them.)
I liked more, but I need to digest it further.
Oh, the "leader" of the white power group was Piper, but her 1st officer was "Skanky". Loved Adrienne Moore's story about not recognizing her at the premiere.
Technically spoilers abound in this post, but I'm trying to keep things generic enough to avoid spoiler tagging everything.
Themes I liked this year.
The simple fact that eventually we have to own our choices.
Something Judy King's short stay at Litchfield hasn't yet taught her.
"Something" that Piper's somewhat longer stay is finally starting to teach her.
I loved how quickly Frida and Red came to the conclusion that someone "should" die. Even more than that, I loved how it was Vause (the woman who turned in her own ex-girlfriend for a shorter sentence) was the one who kept trying to dissuade them from that decision.
Sister Ingalls may have had a smaller presence this year, but her storyline was all about standing up for her friend, something she didn't do enough for at the end of the last season.
Someone else stepping up this year was Gloria, who reached across the racial divide to try and right the wrong visited upon Sophia last season, even if it meant letting a pacifist nun mess up her face in a prison fight. All that stuff between Gloria, Alieda and Daya was to be "expected" since Gloria was Daya's 2nd mother, but watching Gloria chase her racial clique out of the salon and gently brush out Sophia's wig was inspiring.
Talking about small parts this year, my two fav nonprison characters returned this year, Piper's brother Cal and Sophia's wife. Crystal is such a badass!
I really liked watching Vause interact with people OTHER than Piper this season and Red / Alex was trumped only by Lolly / Alex, To see Red include Alex in the family meeting was a nice coda in the finale.
Talk about owning your choices, it was nice to see Red treat her prison daughter's season 4 drug addiction different this time BECAUSE of her failure with Tricia's addiction 3 seasons ago. "She's dead in the prison cemetery under a marker that spelled her name wrong." Talk about ignominy in death. Red knows she has to change her strategy to prevent another daughter from such a fate, and she did.
I liked how the "new" inmates are only seen in "the present" without back stories / flashbacks.
I liked how the power that corrupted the privileged upper middle class Piper also corrupted the less fortunate Maria who not only visited violence upon Piper but threatened same upon her own racial classmate.
The Jewish conversion of Black Cindy to Tovah was played for laughs when they gave her a Muslim cube-mate, but I laughed more when Judy was more upset at Cindy's religion than her race. (To be fair, I also laughed at the Scientology comments and immediately wondered what Laura Prepon thought about them.)
I liked more, but I need to digest it further.
Oh, the "leader" of the white power group was Piper, but her 1st officer was "Skanky". Loved Adrienne Moore's story about not recognizing her at the premiere.
Why is 3 more season a bad thing?
As for the timing, we've been through 4 seasons and if I recall correctly from my binge, it was said at some point that Piper was in the 9th month of an 18-month sentence, so I think the timeline is fine if they want to bookend the series with Piper's release.
That's an interesting question, who is more evil between Piscatella and Mendes. It's a lawful evil/chaotic evil question. And neither is nearly as bad as Humps.
Is there any guard right now other than Piscatella who hasn't committed worse crimes than most of the prisoners? Three rapists, a murderer, a drug dealer, a psychopath who assaults prisoners. Female guard I guess is not a felon?
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Suzanne's backstory is unfortunate. It doesn't seem like she deserves prison but it's also not a simple matter. I wonder what could have been done as an alternative.
I agree. This season also touched on the fact that the system is often too harsh. Look at Suzanne or the guy who had sex on the beach.
7 seasons just felt like a lot for a show like this. My first reaction was that there isn't a lot you can do with prison life and I didn't want the show dragged out just because it's popular. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter right now though. I'm just going to keep watching to see how it goes.
I was wondering about that. I lost track of the timeline and started to wonder if they were fudging things or ignoring time and just going with the drama.
^ I just assumed that it would end with her release and thinking about it more, I still hope it does. Having it end before that might make the show feel incomplete and having it go on without her might make it feel like it's dragging on.
It needs to either end with her release or her being sent to max.
Of course, it's loosely based on the experiences of a woman who did get released at the end of her short sentence and then became an activist, so it will probably end with her release.
Of course, it's loosely based on the experiences of a woman who did get released at the end of her short sentence and then became an activist, so it will probably end with her release.