Things to go when Moffat leaves

[Christopher]

As for looking older than the body you've regenerated into, Capaldi is himself younger than he looks.

So were Hartnell and Pertwee. (Terrance Dicks's novelizations often referred to the Third Doctor's "young-old face.") Although unlike the others, Hartnell was unusually decrepit for his age, due to his heavy drinking and smoking. Which was bad for him, but good for the franchise, because if he hadn't had to step down, we never would've had regeneration, and the show would've probably ended by 1970 or so. (Although seeing "The War Machines" recently made me wish we could've seen the First Doctor working with UNIT. That was the only time we ever saw him in the role of an advisor to present-day Earth authorities, but it's a role he took to extremely well. Hartnell was in fine form in that serial.)

 

[Mr Awe]

Den of Geek has been publishing some tidbits from an interview Moffat has in latest DWM.

Moffat felt Series 7 was "Miserable":
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/doctor-who/41885/doctor-who-steven-moffat-says-series-7-was-miserable

Interesting, and I assume when he says he got hate mail for not bringing in William Hartnell, I'm assuming he meant William Russell? I didn't write hate mail, but that was a stupid thing. Should've brought him in when it made the most sense!

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

But, while the whole the-answer-to-the-Hybrid-arc-doesn't-really-matter thing made a lot more sense to me the 2nd time around, it was still not a particularly exciting arc. It wasn't as engaging a mystery as the Doctor's death from Season 6 or the Impossible Girl from Season 7, nor as consistent as the cracks from Season 5 or Missy & Heaven from Season 8. And the Hybrid's non-resolution resolution also could have been clearer at the end. (Considering all of the monologuing people did in "Hell Bent," it's astonishing anything from that episode would still be unclear.)

I agree with all of this. And, just because it makes logical sense, it doesn't follow that it is a good story. It isn't. You just end up not caring.

Mr Awe

 

[Christopher]

Interesting, and I assume when he says he got hate mail for not bringing in William Hartnell, I'm assuming he meant William Russell?

I took it as a jokey way of saying that some fans criticize him for falling short of impossible expectations.

 

[Mr Awe]

I took it as a jokey way of saying that some fans criticize him for falling short of impossible expectations.

It could be that. Or, he might have named the wrong William!

 

[Christopher]

It's Moffat. Of course he was joking. Look at the whole line -- "I was staggering into the 50th, with no Doctors contracted to appear in it, battered with endless hate mail about how I hadn’t got William Hartnell back and Sherlock Series Three at the same time." There'd be no reason to single out William Russell in that context; some people would surely want to see him, sure, but why would the hate mail be "endless" about just one surviving companion? It had to be figurative, with Hartnell as a synecdoche for all the past Doctors that fans were clamoring for and he was unable to deliver.

 

[Mr Awe]

That's a plausible scenario. So, is him saying "Hartnell" instead of "Russell" by accident.

 

[Christopher]

That's a plausible scenario. So, is him saying "Hartnell" instead of "Russell" by accident.

As I said, I don't think that's plausible at all in context. Why William Russell? That makes no sense. And since when is it plausible to propose that Steven Moffat would make a statement that didn't have a joke in it?

 

[Mr Awe]

I think either possibility is plausible. And, it wasn't a joke when he said he didn't have an actor under contract to play the Doctor.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Interesting, and I assume when he says he got hate mail for not bringing in William Hartnell, I'm assuming he meant William Russell?

I'm sure he meant William Hartnell. He's mentioned that before in his column in Doctor Who Magazine that some fans gave him grief for not putting William Hartnell in the 50th, never mind the fact that he's been dead for 40 years. He was joking and there was probably some hyperbole to that. But, knowing Doctor Who fandom, it probably wasn't entirely an exaggeration.

Still, I think he should have worked William Russell into "The Day of the Doctor" as the guy that gives Clara her message from the Doctor at the beginning. (I can just imagine him giving her the message and, while she's busy getting ready to leave, saying, "You know, I used to travel with a man who used that name and..." only to realize that she left without listening to him.)

I also think they should have put Romana, Leela, & Commander Maxil into the Gallifrey scenes in "The Day of the Doctor" as well. (I imagine Colin Baker playing old Maxil as a smarmy, corpulent Herman Goering type with his uniform covered in pointless medals while everyone mocks him for still keeping "that ridiculous regeneration" all these years later. He smugly replies, "Why mess with a classic?" Later, when all the Doctors show up to help, he gets annoyed when he sees that the 6th Doctor has the same face as him.)

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

They should have had Romana and Leela there..... After all wasn't Romana the President at one time?

 

[The Wormhole]

I think either possibility is plausible. And, it wasn't a joke when he said he didn't have an actor under contract to play the Doctor.

Whether you like Moffat or not, it should be obvious to everyone by now that he's always inserting jokes into everything he says or writes. He said Hartnell, he meant Hartnell. The fact there's truthful parts to that statement does not mean he didn't also include a joke there as well.

And the scary thing is, I can believe someone did send him hate mail for not including Hartnell. And Troughton and Pertwee.

 

[Mr Soak]

They should have had Romana and Leela there..... After all wasn't Romana the President at one time?

In non-television material, yes. It would be up to the writer to reference such material, but they couldn't use said material as necessary knowledge - I think it's the BBC's charter that prevents it.

Romana's history would probably be too involved to merely have it as a mention; it would probably need at least an A-plot to bring TV-only people up to speed.

And then there's explaining a non-Gallifreyan on Gallifrey (Leela) during the Time War. Plus maybe one or two K-9s to boot.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

In non-television material, yes. It would be up to the writer to reference such material, but they couldn't use said material as necessary knowledge - I think it's the BBC's charter that prevents it.

Romana's history would probably be too involved to merely have it as a mention; it would probably need at least an A-plot to bring TV-only people up to speed.

And then there's explaining a non-Gallifreyan on Gallifrey (Leela) during the Time War. Plus maybe one or two K-9s to boot.

Well to me it wouldn't have been a huge deal since when has there ever been proper continuity in Dr. Who? haha

 

[Christopher]

In non-television material, yes. It would be up to the writer to reference such material, but they couldn't use said material as necessary knowledge - I think it's the BBC's charter that prevents it.

Not to mention common sense. The tie-ins are read/listened to by only a small portion of the TV show's audience, so the audience as a whole can't be expected to have prior knowledge of them. So references only work if they're either explained within the TV story itself or are minor enough to need no explanation.

Romana's history would probably be too involved to merely have it as a mention; it would probably need at least an A-plot to bring TV-only people up to speed.

Yup. New-series fans wouldn't know who she was, and old-series fans unfamiliar with the books and audios would be confused as to how she got back from E-Space. (Although I was pretty confused by Rassilon's resurrection when "The End of Time" established it...)

And then there's explaining a non-Gallifreyan on Gallifrey (Leela) during the Time War. Plus maybe one or two K-9s to boot.

They could've had a cameo by Louise Jameson in the background, without explaining who she was, just as an Easter egg for people who'd recognize her. But I gather the makers of "The Day of the Doctor" were working under a limited budget and schedule and couldn't manage to get cameos from everyone, so they had to prioritize.

 

[Mr Awe]

I'm sure he meant William Hartnell. He's mentioned that before in his column in Doctor Who Magazine that some fans gave him grief for not putting William Hartnell in the 50th, never mind the fact that he's been dead for 40 years. He was joking and there was probably some hyperbole to that. But, knowing Doctor Who fandom, it probably wasn't entirely an exaggeration.

Still, I think he should have worked William Russell into "The Day of the Doctor" as the guy that gives Clara her message from the Doctor at the beginning. (I can just imagine him giving her the message and, while she's busy getting ready to leave, saying, "You know, I used to travel with a man who used that name and..." only to realize that she left without listening to him.)

Ah well, that's probably just me really wishing he had worked William Russell into the special (or other episode) and knowing full well that Hartnell has long passed on. Sigh, it was a real missed opportunity.

Mr Awe

 

[The Wormhole]

IMO, I'd have gladly taken a William Russell cameo over Tom Baker.

 

[Christopher]

While I would've been happy with a William Russell cameo, I recognize that the subset of the audience that would recognize him is probably a lot smaller than the subset that would recognize Tom Baker.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I would have also preferred William Russell. For years I've been wanting such encounter to show off the contrasting ages of the two characters: The Doctor now appears young (especially when he was The Eleventh Doctor) and Ian is an old man. A big missed opportunity.

 

[Christopher]

I would have also preferred William Russell. For years I've been wanting such encounter to show off the contrasting ages of the two characters: The Doctor now appears young (especially when he was The Eleventh Doctor) and Ian is an old man. A big missed opportunity.

Although in The Sarah Jane Adventures: "Death of the Doctor," Sarah Jane implied that Ian and Barbara hadn't aged a day since the 1960s. Granted, though, she stated it as a rumor rather than a verified fact, so it wouldn't necessarily have been an inconsistency.