Shootings in Orlando

[Miss Chicken]

It seems that many scammers have started up 'fundraisers' for the Orlando victims. GoFundMe has had to take down several dubious fundraisers on their site. How low does one have to get to scam like this.

The one that I linked to is genuine. It is being run by Equality Florida and they have formed a partnership with the City of Orlando and the National VIctims of Crime to make sure that the money is distributed to the victims and their families. The GoFundMe team themselves have contributed $100,000 towards this fundraiser.

 

[Amaris]

The fundraiser at GoFundMe has raised over $3,700,000 in two days and this is by far the most ever raised in a GoFundMe campaign.

The previous record was around $2,500,000.

I just looked briefly at the thread started by my defriended 'friend'. Apart from people saying that I don't deserve to have her as a friend, others have told people not to donate to the victims of the Orlando shooting as they don't deserve it.

Clearly they're referencing the part of the Bible where Jesus says "Neener Neener Neener." They might actually do better to read Matthew 25:44-45. Not like it will sink in, but at least they could say they read an honest to goodness Bible passage outside of Leviticus.

 

[C. Cole-Chakotay]

Mexico is in North America.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[C. Cole-Chakotay]

If you want to split those hairs more accurately, Mexico is part of North America. And South America, just like North America, is a continent, not a nation, so you can't be a citizen of it anyway.

Miss Chicken, I would've unfriended that woman, too. And her friends who said that the victims don't deserve donations. Wow.

Thanks. I corrected my original post to say Mexico is in North America.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^

 

[TwoJakes]

to deal with the rampant gun culture despite many attempts and the popularity of gun control proposals

Not so popular as to get passed into law. Enforcing the existing law would be a good first move, not creating more.

(which failed even after 20 kids and 6 teachers were killed at Sandy Hook),

The weapons there were stolen after the killer killed the legal owner, a legal owner who somehow owned those weapons for years without murdering anyone.

we have to also take action in other areas where we can hopefully get some movement.

When a woman deliberately ran down forty people in Las Vegas six months ago no suggested getting rid of cars. People protect themselves everyday with personal weapons, stripping those weapons away will cause far more harm than good.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When a woman deliberately ran down forty people in Las Vegas six months ago no suggested getting rid of cars.

That's because the only function of guns is to kill - that's all they were made to do. Not so with cars.

 

[MarsWeeps]

^What about alcohol? More people are killed each year by drunk drivers than by guns but where's the outcry to ban alcohol? What legitimate use does alcohol provide that justifies people being slaughtered on the roads?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Some forms of alcohol have medicinal/disinfectant properties, I believe.

In any case, booze wasn't designed to kill people. You can have the occasional drink and never hurt anyone.

 

[MarsWeeps]

You missed the point. People are slaughtered every day on the roads because of drunk driving but nobody is demanding alcohol control.

You can also own guns without shooting anyone. If it weren't for guns, you'd probably be speaking German or Japanese right now.

 

[stardream]

We have alcohol control. ATF...remember them?

We have to register our cars and buy insurance for them. Something I would not oppose when it comes to firearms. You can have all the guns you want...just register them and buy insurance. Yes, I know criminals won't do that....I know all the arguments.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Yeah there's ATF but where is the public outcry to ban alcohol? Some lunatic shoots up a place and people start demanding gun control but when more people are killed by drunk drivers, all you hear are crickets. Why aren't the politicians who want guns banned also trying to ban alcohol?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You missed the point. People are slaughtered every day on the roads because of drunk driving but nobody is demanding alcohol control.

That's because we already have reasonable measures for alcohol control. Bars can refuse to serve to someone who is obviously drunk, stores require ID when selling alcohol, drunk drivers can be screened and prosecuted, that type of thing.

And you don't see the kind of outcry that the NRA always does when EQUALLY reasonable restrictions on guns are proposed...the NRA will settle for nothing less than total, unrestricted access to guns for absolutely anyone who wants one, and any time even the slightest restriction (such as a waiting period) is proposed, they go all four wheels off the road with this bullshit about "freedom".

 

[MarsWeeps]

Sorry for taking the thread off topic, we should continue it elsewhere.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Gun control debates are a waste of time. The NRA has its members so thoroughly brainwashed into being gunnuts that there is no possibility of civil discourse. There is no logical reason for a private citizen to have access to anything more powerful than a handgun or hunting rifle. There is also no logical argument against screenings and waiting periods to make it harder for criminals and crazies to legally acquire firearms.

 

[MarsWeeps]

There are plenty of logical arguments but let's debate that elsewhere. Start a new thread and point me to it and let's see if we can set emotions aside and bring up logical points for both sides of the argument.

 

[Spot261]

I'm sure I really shouldn't do this but looking from outside I find the whole concept of an armed citizenry archaic and tragically ridiculous.

There is no logical argument in favour that isn't easily refuted both from first principle and the balance of evidence, yet the bodies keep on piling up.

Last year America had more than one mass shooting per day. In total 13,286 people were killed in 2015 to guns on American soil. That's more than FOUR TIMES the total population of the Falkland Isles - in one year.

In total more American lives have been lost in mainland illegal shootings than to enemy action in wartime. Just to be clear that includes every war they have ever fought combined.

In fact the US is by many measures the most dangerous place in the world that isn't an active war zone.

I get that many will find this offensive but it's hard to be a humanitarian and live in a world where such a powerful nation models itself as a world leader whilst itself maintaining policies of such terrifying stupidity.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, let's take the gun control debate to TNZ. I was making an offhand comment in the middle of a larger post, but apparently even a single line that wasn't the main point can't go unchallenged by gun advocates with terrible analogies.

 

[MarsWeeps]

apparently even a single line that wasn't the main point can't go unchallenged by gun advocates with terrible analogies.

Couldn't resist getting the last "shot" in, could you?

 

[publiusr]

Guns give people the illusion that they have control over their own lives. It is a lot like direct democracy in initiative and referendum. So much else has been taken from folks--living wage jobs--respect--that they will fight you on this.

This contraption will allow folks to make their own AR-15 core
https://ghostgunner.net/

Between that and 3D printing---the lid has not only been ripped off pandora's box, but the bottom knocked out and all four sides missing. Even Bill Maher bought a gun--and worse, we saw that the DNC couldn't keep a gun nut out of their own party--let alone a huge continent with 300 million people http://www.economist.com/news/unite...denly-mired-scandal-gun-banner-and-gun-runner

http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-facts-that-neither-side-wants-to-admit-about-gun-control/207152/

Now if someone shoots up Wall Street--then there will be gun control. I think Trump might actually be open to some measures. I think anything more will just give us another Waco Ruby Ridge and OK City--so that needs to be avoided.

I never saw all this when I was growing up. I always knew where my Dad's revolver was--but it never occured to me to bring it to school--that would have been the act of a coward to me.

I am not angry with the shooter. I'd like to think that--had the right person had gotten to him--he could have been salvaged. It was easier to die for a faith he never really had than to live openly as Mr. Savage of Savage Love does.

And now--we have the deal with the gator. Just a bad week down there.