Cardassian history

[Wingsley]

When did the Cardassians encounter First Contact with humans and/or the Federation?

I recall in DS9 that, historically speaking, the Klingons and the Cardassians confronted each other in space, in a conflict that lasted 18 years. (Dr. Bashir said this.) But I do not recall anything which explicitly lays out when the Cardassians and Humans and/or Federation citizens had their first encounter.

Is there any indication when Earth/UFP discovered the Cardassians? Was it ever set in stone that this happened in the 24th century, or could it have happened in the pre-TOS, TOS, or TMP eras?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We have absolutely no idea when first contact took place. Not in the prime timeline, anyway; in the Abramsverse, Uhura orders a Cardassian drink (in the bar scene in ST09), so it implies that the Cardassians are already known to the Federation of that timeline.

 

[Wingsley]

So it is at least theoretically possible in "prime universe" canon that there was some kind of interaction between the Federation and the Cardassians, directly or indirectly, in the TOS or pre-TOS era.

 

[Wingsley]

Can anyone figure out what Dr. Bashir was talking about when he mentioned some kind of 18-year conflict between the Cardassians and the Klingons?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Battle of Klach D'Kel Bracht.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

When did the Cardassians encounter First Contact with humans and/or the Federation?

The Cardassian poet Iloja of Prim was exiled from Cardassia and settled on Vulcan sometime between 2018 and 2245, so it's safe to assume that the Vulcans had them in the database which they shared with Humans sometime after First Contact in 2063.

Cardassian ships had been boarded and observed by the Organians in 2152, as had the NX-01 (ENT: Observer Effect). A Cardassian ship had visited the automated repair station from ENT: Dead Stop in the same year, meaning Humans and Cardassians were visiting the same areas and waypoints in space in the mid-22nd century.

In 2255 in the altVerse, Uhura ordered two "Cardassian Sunrises" from the Starfleet bar in Iowa.

The aforementioned 18-year war between the Klingons and Cardassians was actually the Betreka Nebula Incident and not the Battle of Klach D'Kel Bracht, but it was described as happening "ages ago" by Garak, which means Cardassians had been actively involved in Alpha Quadrant affairs for quite some time before the Federation and Cardassians went to war with each other around 2347.

Picard used to read about ancient Bajoran history in the fifth grade, and the Bajorans and Cardassians had been in peaceful contact for centuries before the foundation of the Federation, and the occupation had been going on for almost forty years before it ended in late-TNG/DS9.

So, I think it's safe to say Humans could have known about the existence of Cardassians since the late-21st century from the Vulcans, possibly interacted with their more peaceful explorers in the mid-22nd century, witnessed their militarization in the 23rd century and colonized planets near their territory, denounced their occupation of Bajor in the early 24th century, and actively went to war against them in the mid-24th century.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Can anyone figure out what Dr. Bashir was talking about when he mentioned some kind of 18-year conflict between the Cardassians and the Klingons?

The aforementioned 18-year war between the Klingons and Cardassians was actually the Betreka Nebula Incident and not the Battle of Klach D'Kel Bracht, but it was described as happening "ages ago" by Garak, which means Cardassians had been actively involved in Alpha Quadrant affairs for quite some time before the Federation and Cardassians went to war with each other around 2347.

Wingsley, if you're interested in such things, Keith R.A. DeCandido wrote a novel, called The Art of the Impossible, about this incident. It's been a while since I read it, but I recall enjoying it.

 

[TwoJakes]

Is there any indication when Earth/UFP discovered the Cardassians?

Given the Cardassian poet, would probably be more a case of Cardassains discovering Earth, and not the other way around.

 

[Wingsley]

I was wondering about this scenario:

It is the TOS era, and the Federation is already aware of the Cardassians. There has never been a confrontation, however.

Then a Federation starship is on a diplomatic assignment in deep space when a Cardassian starship appaears. Bang, just like the confrontation with the Tholians in "The Tholian Web": the Federation knows about these aliens, but this is a historic first confrontation between the two parties.

Plausible?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Plausible?

I don't see why not.

(Although I don't think there was anything in "The Tholian Web" to indicate it was an "historic first confrontation", was there?)

IIRC, the graphic novel Enter the Wolves was supposed to take place not long after Federation-Cardassian first contact (?), and MB is dating it around 2327, FWIW.

 

[Go-Captain]

Given the Cardassian poet, would probably be more a case of Cardassains discovering Earth, and not the other way around.

The Cardassian poet is from the book Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic (Book 3). He says that he was exiled for seditious poetry and got as far as Vulcan only because he tends not to stay on any world for very long. He makes it clear no one will encounter the Cardassians for quite a while, because of the distance he traveled.

However, Cardassian space being right next to Klingon space and DS9 means it should actually be pretty easy to get there. Same for the Ferengi, and we did see Ferengi pirates in ENT. Enterprise got to the Klingons in days, getting to DS9 from Earth was only ever a matter of days even with Runabouts, I think, and Runabouts are only about as fast as the NX-class. What we might have is a case of humans not wanting to expand toward the Klingons, thus incidentally avoiding the Cardassians and Ferengi for a couple centuries.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

The Cardassian poet is from the book Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic (Book 3).

The poet was originally mentioned in DS9: Destiny. The Dax symbiont's former host Tobin had met him on Vulcan.

 

[Timo]

The aforementioned 18-year war between the Klingons and Cardassians was actually the Betreka Nebula Incident and not the Battle of Klach D'Kel Bracht, but it was described as happening "ages ago" by Garak, which means Cardassians had been actively involved in Alpha Quadrant affairs for quite some time before the Federation and Cardassians went to war with each other around 2347.

A couple of random points:

1) When our heroes first get an eyeful of Klingon-Cardassian fighting in "Way of the Warrior", Bashir laments that this comes after "twenty years of peace". Since the only peace that has been violated so far is the Klingon-Cardassian one, this sort of suggests that the Betreka Nebula was contested between 2334 and 2352 or thereabouts. Or then significantly earlier, as there's no known limit to Garak's "ages ago" thing (both Klingons and Cardassians apparently being quite long-lived and capable of carrying specific grudges across generations).

2) It seems doubtful the UFP and the Cardassian Union would have gone to war around 2347 already. That's when the insignificant incident at Setlik III takes place, and it doesn't appear to lead to any known consequences, least of all being quoted as casus belli. OTOH, Picard was supposed to be making peace overtures with Cardassia in 2354 - but immediately after the Cardassians (or the Feds?) went to war, or after years, decades or even centuries of fighting, we don't know. Since Cardassians sound like pushovers even when seriously engaging in war, a conflict that drags on and on and on sounds quite plausible - the Feds wouldn't be bothered enough to put an end to it!

3) As of "Way of the Warrior", there doesn't appear to be a meter of actual Klingon-Cardassian border in existence - and indeed the distance between the two empires is so great that the Klingons have to stop at DS9 in neutral space to catch their breath. So it seems the Betreka incident necessarily ended up in either one or both combatants totally withdrawing from Betreka, to quite some distance.

Enterprise got to the Klingons in days, getting to DS9 from Earth was only ever a matter of days even with Runabouts, I think, and Runabouts are only about as fast as the NX-class.

The closest we come to learning about the travel time by runabout is when Bashir in "Defiant" wants something by the end of the week, and Kira says she can't spare a runabout for a trip "all the way to Vulcan". It does sound as if it should take no more than three days for a runabout to travel between DS9 and Vulcan, then. (And the distance between Earth and Vulcan might be insignificant at warp five - but NX-01 was never in that much of a hurry on that stretch so ENT doesn't solidly establish that.)

On the other hand, Kira is not exactly accommodating there. Perhaps a runabout can't make it to Vulcan and back in seven days, but will take about thirty, and that's the best Kira can't do for Bashir?

Timo Saloniemi