What if they had made Harrison one of Khan's former Eugenics War Generals in Into Darkness?

[Cadet49]

Personally, the reveal in Into Darkness the Harrison was actually Khan really pulled me out of the story, because Cumberbatch reminded me nothing of Montoban.

Cumberbatch was awesome in the part, so I definitely see why he was cast in the part, but I just wonder, if the writers wanted to have a tie in somehow to Khan from Star Trek II, why didn't they just say that Harrison was one of Khan's genetically enhanced followers that had accompanied him from Earth on the Botany Bay. It might have been an interesting plot line to find out that Khan had actually died in suspended animation in space, or that he was one of the people still stored in the cryogenic tubes, and that Harrison, one of Khan's generals during the Eugenics Wars, had been awoken first by Section 31, and was now fighting to protect the rest of Khan's people, because, as he says in the movie, he sees them as his "family". The plot could have been very similar, but it could have allowed the writers to do their shout out to the Wrath of Khan, while creating an original villain that would not be compared to the original Khan. Heck, they could have even done a double reveal by having Harrison claim he was Khan, but then we later learn that he was actually doing that to hide the fact that the real Khan, to whom Harrison is loyal, is safely hidden away somewhere, still waiting to be awoken by Harrison someday...

Do you think that could have worked as a plot point in the movie? I think it would have added an interesting twist...

 

[C.E. Evans]

According to writer/producer Robert Orci, the idea of using Khan came from fellow producer Damon Lindelof, who insisted on using the character. Orci wrote/co-wrote the story initially without Khan, but then had to figure out a way to add him in afterward.

Unfortunately, how Cumberbatch's Khan came to be couldn't be explored in great detail without possibly derailing the whole movie, so it had to be told off-screen in a comic book miniseries that showed not only Khan's origins in TOS & how horrible the Eugenics Wars really were, but also how he also came to look like Cumberbatch.
http://media.comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/star-trek-khan-comic-book.jpg

I did cringe just a little when Harrison revealed his true identity as Khan in the movie, but I loved Cumberbatch's performance, so I just went with it. Sure, I think it could have worked just as well if he had played someone associated with Khan, but it actually took that aforementioned comic book to make me like the idea of using Khan in the movie. It may be a failing of the movie having one too many cooks in the kitchen that a major plot point made sense only after reading a tie-in comic book.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Why not make Heath Ledger's character in The Dark Knight one of the Joker's henchman instead of the Joker? After all, his version was nothing like Jack Nicholson's.

I think Cumberbatch was great as Khan. Yes, he looked and sounded different to the original, but so what? Michael Fassbender looks and sounds completely different to Ian McKellon, but they're both fantastic as Magneto.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Personally, the reveal in Into Darkness the Harrison was actually Khan really pulled me out of the story, because Cumberbatch reminded me nothing of Montoban.

Cumberbatch was awesome in the part, so I definitely see why he was cast in the part, but I just wonder, if the writers wanted to have a tie in somehow to Khan from Star Trek II, why didn't they just say that Harrison was one of Khan's genetically enhanced followers that had accompanied him from Earth on the Botany Bay. It might have been an interesting plot line to find out that Khan had actually died in suspended animation in space, or that he was one of the people still stored in the cryogenic tubes, and that Harrison, one of Khan's generals during the Eugenics Wars, had been awoken first by Section 31, and was now fighting to protect the rest of Khan's people, because, as he says in the movie, he sees them as his "family". The plot could have been very similar, but it could have allowed the writers to do their shout out to the Wrath of Khan, while creating an original villain that would not be compared to the original Khan. Heck, they could have even done a double reveal by having Harrison claim he was Khan, but then we later learn that he was actually doing that to hide the fact that the real Khan, to whom Harrison is loyal, is safely hidden away somewhere, still waiting to be awoken by Harrison someday...

Do you think that could have worked as a plot point in the movie? I think it would have added an interesting twist...

would've been cool to see an end reveal of '67 Space Seed Montalban in a cryopod in the "Raiders" warehouse

 

[somebuddyX]

I think I'd have preferred if he were just some guy called John Harrison but it doesn't bother too much.

 

[TheSubCommander]

would've been cool to see an end reveal of '67 Space Seed Montalban in a cryopod in the "Raiders" warehouse

Agreed,I think they should have either made Cumberbatch Khan from the beginning, or made him John Harrison, a separate character and Lieutenant of Khan. Maybe Khan's "science officer," or something. Khan didn't need a secret identity.

I think it could have been interesting if they had made Cumberbatch the latter, then "teased" Khan as being asleep earlier in the movie, where Khan is introduced as a serious villain (but thankfully is frozen!), somehow. Harrison's motive could have been modified slightly to being that of trying to recover Khan and the others, who were being held as carrot's by Admiral Marcus to get Harrison to do his bidding. Then at the end of STID, after Harrison is captured and the cryo tubes are recovered, it's noticed Khan is missing, and presumed escaped. That would have left it open for Khan to actually have a motive for revenge, and that could have been a whole movie right there. They also could have cast someone like Mads Michelson, Arnold Voslo, or maybe even an unknown to the US but established Indian actor to play Khan. That wouldn't have been unheard of, considering Persis Khambatta

 

[Dukhat]

Making Cumberbatch's character Khan was absolutely the right thing to do. Keep in mind that these movies are catering to the casual moviegoer who might not be a Star Trek fan, have never seen Space Seed or TWOK, and might never have heard of Khan. In that case, there's no point in telling the audience that this person isn't in fact the main bad guy, but just one of his lieutenants. That might make sense to a diehard Trek fan, but not the vast percentage of the film's audience.

Now with that said, I would have loved it if they'd gotten Benicio Del Toro (their first choice for Khan), to have filmed one flashback scene where we see Section 31 genetically changing him into Cumberbatch (although it probably would have been relegated to the deleted scenes section of the bluray...)

According to writer/producer Robert Orci, the idea of using Khan came from fellow producer Damon Lindelof, who insisted on using the character. Orci wrote/co-wrote the story initially without Khan, but then had to figure out a way to add him in afterward.

Huh. That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. If they didn't originally intend the main bad guy to be Khan, then how does one explain the torpedos full of his followers, which is the main reason why Harrison was a slave to Marcus?

 

[Khan 2.0]

Now with that said, I would have loved it if they'd gotten Benicio Del Toro (their first choice for Khan), to have filmed one flashback scene where we see Section 31 genetically changing him into Cumberbatch (although it probably would have been relegated to the deleted scenes section of the bluray...)

If they'd done that it might as well have been 1967 Montalban being changed into BC as in the comic...plus a flashback of a federation ship (Reliant) finding the Botany Bay

 

[Dukhat]

If they'd done that it might as well have been 1967 Montalban being changed into BC as in the comic...plus a flashback of a federation ship (Reliant) finding the Botany Bay

Is that what happened in the comic? I never read it.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Yes

 

[Commander Richard]

^ Yes, he had plastic surgery to change his face.

 

[Set Harth]

"What if they had made Harrison one of Khan's former Eugenics War Generals in Into Darkness?"

They didn't even consider it. Probably because these guys relate to good decisions the way vampires relate to crosses and holy water.

Unfortunately, how Cumberbatch's Khan came to be couldn't be explored in great detail without possibly derailing the whole movie

Khan's whole backstory, maybe, but the surgery thing could have been explained fairly quickly without derailing much of the movie at all. Really just part of one scene. It didn't occupy much of the comic. It's more like they left it to a (non-canon) comic book because they didn't want to commit to it in the movie.

Cumberbatch even looks a little bit like Judson Scott.

 

[Nightowl1701]

^ That was my thought, too. That 'Khan' was actually Joachim covering for his still-frozen boss.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Now with that said, I would have loved it if they'd gotten Benicio Del Toro (their first choice for Khan), to have filmed one flashback scene where we see Section 31 genetically changing him into Cumberbatch (although it probably would have been relegated to the deleted scenes section of the bluray...)

That would have been pretty interesting. I like that idea.

 

[fireproof78]

Would have been a nice twist. Or Marcus killed Khan as a demonstration of his resolve and that made Joachim more compliant.

 

[Franklin]

Why not make Heath Ledger's character in The Dark Knight one of the Joker's henchman instead of the Joker? After all, his version was nothing like Jack Nicholson's.

I think Cumberbatch was great as Khan. Yes, he looked and sounded different to the original, but so what? Michael Fassbender looks and sounds completely different to Ian McKellon, but they're both fantastic as Magneto.

And Nicholson's version was nothing like Cesar Romero's.

In my opinion, the last thing a movie needs is unnecessary exposition just because a character doesn't look "right." Suspension of disbelief is a wonderful thing. To start, it lets me think a starship can travel at warp speed and everyone in the galaxy speaks English. After that, it's all easy (for me, anyway).

 

[Dukhat]

And Nicholson's version was nothing like Cesar Romero's.

In my opinion, the last thing a movie needs is unnecessary exposition just because a character doesn't look "right." Suspension of disbelief is a wonderful thing. To start, it let's me think a starship can travel at warp speed and everyone in the galaxy speaks English. After that, it's all easy (for me, anyway).

What's funny is that Bruce Greenwood looked and acted absolutely nothing like Jeffrey Hunter, and yet nobody complained about the Pike character being "different."

 

[Commander Richard]

In my opinion, the last thing a movie needs is unnecessary exposition just because a character doesn't look "right."

I think that they could have included a brief montage as he recounted his story. Perhaps we could have been treated to a blurry shadowy silhouette that you could tell was TOS Khan as he was woken up on the Botany Bay. You wouldn't get a clear view of his face, just the hair and outfit maybe. Then we could have seen a few equally blurry and shadowy glimpses of an operating room and surgery as he transitioned to Cumberbatch Khan who you probably would see clearly as the montage finished.

What's funny is that Bruce Greenwood looked and acted absolutely nothing like Jeffrey Hunter, and yet nobody complained about the Pike character being "different."

I'm alright with Greenwood but I've mentioned Ray Liotta just because of his appearance.

 

[Nightowl1701]

What's funny is that Bruce Greenwood looked and acted absolutely nothing like Jeffrey Hunter, and yet nobody complained about the Pike character being "different."

I dunno, seemed to me he had Hunter's 'I am so OVER this job' gravitas down pat. That said, they could have done a much better job of matching his look to Hunter's. A tan, a dye job on the sideburns and trimmed combed-back hair was all it would've took.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Huh. That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. If they didn't originally intend the main bad guy to be Khan, then how does one explain the torpedos full of his followers, which is the main reason why Harrison was a slave to Marcus?

All that came after Khan was added to the story. New ideas come into play with various drafts, sometimes changing the entire story in the process.