Inventor of World Wide Web wants to reinvent it

[Spot's Meow]

I read an interesting article today about the internet:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/t...-looks-to-reinvent-it.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

Those who worked to invent the world wide web are looking to reinvent it to make it more difficult for governments and companies to control content. What do you think? What are the chances this actually goes anywhere?

What I find most interesting in the article is that they state a desire to make the web more private and protected by making it more difficult to identify individuals (for example, they pointed out that governments can see every person who visited a website, and this can be a powerful spying tool), but at the same time they also express a desire for more accountability on the web. These goals almost seem counter to each other - you want less ability to pinpoint an individual's actions/behavior on the web, yet you also want to be able to hold people accountable for the things they do on the web. Hmm.

I do look forward to what's to come in the next few years and decades (if I'm lucky enough to be around that long). I see many possible paths forward for the internet, it should be interesting to see which one we go down.

 

[Amaris]

I think it's a good idea that has unfortunately arrived a little too late for it to work effectively. Governments, banks, and major corporations have already embedded their hooks deep into the very fiber of the internet. There's little chance they would willingly cede any kind of power and influence for the greater sharing of knowledge.

 

[LordMudd]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Oh wait, are they going to eliminate the ability of software companies to send out viruses to make you buy new software?


CCC.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

What I find most interesting in the article is that they state a desire to make the web more private and protected by making it more difficult to identify individuals (for example, they pointed out that governments can see every person who visited a website, and this can be a powerful spying tool), but at the same time they also express a desire for more accountability on the web. These goals almost seem counter to each other - you want less ability to pinpoint an individual's actions/behavior on the web, yet you also want to be able to hold people accountable for the things they do on the web. Hmm.

Accountability doesn't just mean legal consequences at the hands of governments. If someone harasses another person on social media, accountability could come in the form of banning their account.

Preventing government from having direct access to your personal information doesn't mean social media providers can't report you to authorities and share your information in the case of illegal behavior like threats or potential child molestation cases and so forth, or that government can't get a warrant for the info themselves.

 

[Spot261]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Oh wait, are they going to eliminate the ability of software companies to send out viruses to make you buy new software?


CCC.

I've a little on going experiment in that regard, I worked on the basis that virus protection has all the hallmarks of a protection racket, minus the breaking of legs. The people with the vested interest in keeping the internet dangerous are also the ones protecting us. Whilst the threat seems real, we keep paying them money.

So...I've been running my current laptop for several months now with no anti virus, trojan, whatever software whatsoever.

So far so good, performance has remained stable, browsing is a little faster of anything and nothing terrible seems to have come from anything I've downloaded (although it's hard to be sure without anything trying to detect problems)

Please, please, please don't anyone take this as a recommendation, more an individual quirk, but it seems to be working out so far, leading me to wonder of all those glitch creating bugs I was picking up for so long may not in fact have been part and parcel of the very software that was supposedly there to prevent them.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

improved privacy would also protect your common cyber-bully, passport forger or drug dealer. Not really something desirable, imho. The net is ok as it is. Never change a running system...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I've a little on going experiment in that regard, I worked on the basis that virus protection has all the hallmarks of a protection racket, minus the breaking of legs. The people with the vested interest in keeping the internet dangerous are also the ones protecting us. Whilst the threat seems real, we keep paying them money.

I think you're being paranoid...

only thing I bother with is an ad blocker.

Yeah, you might not want to admit that in a public TBBS forum. That can get you a permaban.

And yes, we remember that you mentioned that, even before you edited it out of your post.

 

[Amaris]

I've a little on going experiment in that regard, I worked on the basis that virus protection has all the hallmarks of a protection racket, minus the breaking of legs. The people with the vested interest in keeping the internet dangerous are also the ones protecting us. Whilst the threat seems real, we keep paying them money.

So...I've been running my current laptop for several months now with no anti virus, trojan, whatever software whatsoever. The only thing I bother with is an ad blocker.

So far so good, performance has remained stable, browsing is a little faster of anything and nothing terrible seems to have come from anything I've downloaded (although it's hard to be sure without anything trying to detect problems)

Please, please, please don't anyone take this as a recommendation, more an individual quirk, but it seems to be working out so far, leading me to wonder of all those glitch creating bugs I was picking up for so long may not in fact have been part and parcel of the very software that was supposedly there to prevent them.

For all you know you have a rootkit, a keylogger, and a packet sniffer going at this very moment, all without your knowledge, and your computer will behave as if nothing is wrong, because that is what those programs are designed to do.

Antivirus companies don't have to create viruses and malware to get business. There are plenty of people out there with the incentive to create malware all on their own, because there's a metric ton of money in it. Bank accounts, personal passwords, social security information, credit card numbers, you name it, a few lines of code can get to it if you do it right. That is why antivirus and antimalware software exists.

Saying antivirus companies are a protection racket is almost like saying vaccinations are Big Pharma's way of cashing in.

 

[Spot261]

For all you know you have a rootkit, a keylogger, and a packet sniffer going at this very moment, all without your knowledge, and your computer will behave as if nothing is wrong, because that is what those programs are designed to do.

Antivirus companies don't have to create viruses and malware to get business. There are plenty of people out there with the incentive to create malware all on their own, because there's a metric ton of money in it. Bank accounts, personal passwords, social security information, credit card numbers, you name it, a few lines of code can get to it if you do it right. That is why antivirus and antimalware software exists.

Kind of makes it that little more exciting don't you think?

(Actually all that sort of stuff happens on my wife's device - I just use this to "cruise" so to speak)

 

[LordMudd]

For all you know you have a rootkit, a keylogger, and a packet sniffer going at this very moment, all without your knowledge, and your computer will behave as if nothing is wrong, because that is what those programs are designed to do.

Antivirus companies don't have to create viruses and malware to get business. There are plenty of people out there with the incentive to create malware all on their own, because there's a metric ton of money in it. Bank accounts, personal passwords, social security information, credit card numbers, you name it, a few lines of code can get to it if you do it right. That is why antivirus and antimalware software exists.

Saying antivirus companies are a protection racket is almost like saying vaccinations are Big Pharma's way of cashing in.

The problem I have with this is that in the beginning all they did was make computers crash, forcing you to buy new computers and software. The only motive I can see for this is the manufacturers want to sell more goods. Its like the government outlawing old cars because they don't fall apart like new ones do. If you still have your old computer because it still works, they can't make any more money off of you. The fact that more and more people figure out how to use this is just the way it happens.


CCC.

 

[Amaris]

The problem I have with this is that in the beginning all they did was make computers crash, forcing you to buy new computers and software. The only motive I can see for this is the manufacturers want to sell more goods. Its like the government outlawing old cars because they don't fall apart like new ones do. If you still have your old computer because it still works, they can't make any more money off of you. The fact that more and more people figure out how to use this is just the way it happens.


CCC.

That's the only motive you can see? You can't see advancing technology, improved hardware, more reliable software, more demanding tasks? Can you render HD video with an Intel 286 and 4 MB of RAM? No. So while there is some level of planned obsolescence in all marketing and merchandise, your antivirus software exists to preserve your PC's ability to do the tasks it needs to do. It keeps you from needing to constantly buy a new one because some asshole in Russia decided to brick it because he wanted your banking information, or so he can DDOS some poor company for not letting him work there, or any myriad number of legitimate reasons.

 

[Spot261]

Saying antivirus companies are a protection racket is almost like saying vaccinations are Big Pharma's way of cashing in.

Vaccinations are not, but certainly here in the UK the NHS is pretty much held to ransom over certain drugs so for me the analogy with drug firms is hardly reassuring. Do you honestly believe clinical trials are never tweaked to sell useless products or at least exaggerate their utility? Do you honestly believe the prices for monopolised pharmaceuticals actually reflects a fair margin and not just profiteering?

 

[publiusr]

How about a CB band internet to really anger truckers?

 

[Amaris]

Vaccinations are not, but certainly here in the UK the NHS is pretty much held to ransom over certain drugs so for me the analogy with drug firms is hardly reassuring. Do you honestly believe clinical trials are never tweaked to sell useless products or at least exaggerate their utility? Do you honestly believe the prices for monopolised pharmaceuticals actually reflects a fair margin and not just profiteering?

That's irrelevant to the point. After "vaccines are not," my point was made. That's why I chose the term "vaccines," and not "prescription medicine." The fact is that while I am most assuredly certain that there are agencies out there who run a protection racket when it comes to PC security, the major mainstream companies like Symantec, Kaspersky, Avira, and so on, aren't creating viruses to sell their product. In fact, those major companies work to find ways to break the legs of the protectionist racket. You do realize that most antivirus companies have a free version of their software, right? That they offer powerful tools to dig out rootkits, eliminate keyloggers, and to clean a system, all for free? They do this for their own protection, and for yours.

A remotely controlled computer can be used to cause massive damage on a global scale. Do you know why so many servers get taken down by some script kiddie who can't decide whether he wants to masturbate or scream epithets at people on Youtube? Because ignorant users leave their computers unsecured, and don't take proper precautions, so their computer gets to be a part of something larger: a DDOS attack, which is simply a brute force attack against a server that uses thousands of remotely controlled computers to overload the server with information requests until the whole system just crumbles under the strain.

Viruses and malware have been around since someone who had too much time on their hands decided to start learning a programming language in order to mess around with their friends. It became serious when organizations discovered that all they had to do to get access to piles of money, and thousands of identities was to create a worm that could wriggle its way into a bank computer's operating system. There are very real threats out there, created by people and organizations who want your data and your money, and to go without virus protection at this point is foolhardy at best. It's not a conspiracy, it's just common sense in the face of the darker side of human nature.

 

[publiusr]

I got busted in the chops awhile back for mentioning this idea--but I can't help but wonder is some savant somewhere might think in binary--or could be trained to do that. It might be very cruel--but imagine an operating system coded so tightly--a zero and a one at a time--to where there can be no room for a virus.

That whole length of code is itself a key.

 

[Amaris]

I got busted in the chops awhile back for mentioning this idea--but I can't help but wonder is some savant somewhere might think in binary--or could be trained to do that. It might be very cruel--but imagine an operating system coded so tightly--a zero and a one at a time--to where there can be no room for a virus.

That whole length of code is itself a key.

Binary is just "on" and "off." That's all it is. The programming language sits on top of all of that, and is necessary for any kind of operating system. To get around the current setup, you'd have to go back to no hard storage and everything on floppy or romdisk, but then people would just create viruses that infect the BIOS, which do already exist.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Oh yeah? Well, 0100010101010100101010001010101011001010001010010 them, then.

 

[Amaris]

Oh yeah? Well, 0100010101010100101010001010101011001010001010010 them, then.

Well nertz to you, buddy!

 

[LordMudd]

That's the only motive you can see? You can't see advancing technology, improved hardware, more reliable software, more demanding tasks? Can you render HD video with an Intel 286 and 4 MB of RAM? No. So while there is some level of planned obsolescence in all marketing and merchandise, your antivirus software exists to preserve your PC's ability to do the tasks it needs to do. It keeps you from needing to constantly buy a new one because some asshole in Russia decided to brick it because he wanted your banking information, or so he can DDOS some poor company for not letting him work there, or any myriad number of legitimate reasons.

I'm talking about the motive for creating viruses. In the beginning there wasn't a lot you could do because there wasn't much out there to do it to. Time and progress change that, creating opportunity.

 

[Amaris]

I'm talking about the motive for creating viruses. In the beginning there wasn't a lot you could do because there wasn't much out there to do it to. Time and progress change that, creating opportunity.

Take a cigarette lighter back to the dark ages, and even that simple device could alter the course of history. The computers you speak of were advanced for their day, and have only become more complex since then as demands on what they could do have increased. If you had a TRS-80, I could put your computer in a command loop, making it utterly useless unless you turned it off and back on again, and all it took was a couple of seconds and a simple command. People used to do it all of the time in stores where such computers were on display. Why? Because they could.