Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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According to rumors, the Mad Max dream Bruce Wayne actually has is not a dream but a glimpse into the future. Superman at one point tells Knightmare Batman "you took her from me", implying at some point Lois Lane dies. When The Flash appears to interrupt that 'dream', he warns Bruce about Superman and tells him that "Lois is the key", saying he's too soon. From what I've heard, Flash's appearance somehow gave Bruce a glimpse into the future.
So while they don't seem to make much sense in the version of the film we saw, apparently those moments are integral to the plot of Justice League. My theory is that Lois dies when Superman comes back, so he ends up coming back as a villain for the rest of the League to take down. Or perhaps Bruce realizes Lois is in jeopardy at some point in JL and tries to prevent that from happening, which is what I hope ultimately happens. I don't really want to see Superman come back as a villain.
Overall, I think the decision to include those moments and the cameos was partly a studio decision and also partly Snyder's decision, since he was developing JL almost in tandem with BvS. It's a case of removing crucial plot and character elements that might've serviced the actual film, but the elements alluding to Justice League were deemed more important because allegedly they help set up that movie more. Which I think was a bad decision all around, but alas.
It's a big reason why I think Batman v Superman fails so much as a movie: It's too busy trying to set up other movies that it loses thematic focus. But alas. Larry Fong, cinematographer for BvS, warns "if you hated the theatrical cut, you'll hate the [Ultimate Cut]", so I'm not expecting to have my opinion changed on the film after I've seen the Ultimate Cut. However, maybe I'll enjoy the film a tensy bit more. We'll see.
I agree with you 100% on this. It was also the worst thing about AoU. A movie needs to stand on its own (unless it is clearly part of a series) and any "seeds" about future movies should be incorporated organically into the plot, not stand out as extra WTF scenes. What's more, there was nothing in BvS that could not have been incorporated directly in the Justice League movie.
Thor's midnight swim is not...and Thor's vision is foreshadowing for future movies more so than the vision.
Idk, mate. The seeding in AOU was as clunky as the seeding in TASM 2. None of those aspects had anything to do with the story of AoU and TASM 2. It was more "coming attractions", more than anything.
Agreed that they were both clunky, but at least visions and magical pools feel Asgardian.
Seeing the future does not feel Batman at all. It may work with Flash under certain circumstances but we haven't even been introduced to him yet. So while both do feel very very clunky, one doesn't even seem to fit at all with what we know of the established universe.
Seeing the future does not feel Batman at all. It may work with Flash under certain circumstances but we haven't even been introduced to him yet. So while both do feel very very clunky, one doesn't even seem to fit at all with what we know of the established universe.
The Klaue part directly had to do with the plot of AoU, while the Thor part ( besides its Infinity War/Ragnarok service ) had to do with creating Vision, whose arrival and participation is part of the plot of AoU.
In theory, it only feels Batman to the extent that Crisis on Infinite Earths feels Batman, since it is clearly derived from that source.
M'rk son of Mogh said:
In theory, it only feels Batman to the extent that Crisis on Infinite Earths feels Batman, since it is clearly derived from that source.
There is no "clearly" when you're talking about a movie universe that has never even used the word "crisis", let alone alluded to it.
No incarnation of Batman on the screen has done anything even remotely like this, and 99% of the audience that has no idea shat CoIE is couldn't possibly make that connection.
No incarnation of Batman on the screen has done anything even remotely like this, and 99% of the audience that has no idea shat CoIE is couldn't possibly make that connection.
That's not a rumor.
It was heavily implied by the movie itself that it was a Flash induced brief glimpse into a possible future.
But that sequence does serve a narrative and thematic purpose.
It reinforces Bruce's belief that Superman will eventually turn bad and that he will be unstoppable and sets him firmly on the path to conflict. It also shows us, the audience, exactly what he's afraid of.
...Seriously?
I never made the connection, and I'm pretty well versed in comics (but mostly Marvel and Image, admittedly). So why should it be clearer to people who are even less into the hobby?
I didn't think of COIE during this scene--why are they going to do a COIE when they have only one Earth? For me this was an invasion from Apoklips--maybe something that will incorporate elements of the new JL origin story, or perhaps even the Darkseid War.
I didn't say it would be clear to any random people. I only say that it is clear to those who know of the original source. The point is that if COIE Batman can receive a message from future Flash, then so can this Batman. In neither case should the event itself "not feel Batman".
No incarnation of Batman on the screen has dealt with superpowers of any kind...
No LIVE incarnation.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...errible-news-for-justice-league/#4d374882318f
'Ninja Turtles 2' Box Office Is Terrible News For 'Justice League'
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Flaw with his analysis is the omission of the Wonder Woman movie. If it's a hit, Justice League will be fine in terms of anticipated box office. If Wonder Woman is disappointing, then he'll have a point.
