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Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

You could say the same thing about switching Jay Garricks.

No, you couldn't, because that's something they spent a good deal of time setting up, so it fits organically into the version of the narrative they were telling. If you'd never read a comic book or seen a DC cartoon in your life, you could've followed the progression of the story and it would've worked as a payoff for what had come before. The storyline of the season was designed to build to that outcome. Changing a "2" to a "3" and a "3" to something else would just be a random and gratuitous change.


But it's turned out to have more in common with comics Earth-3 than with comics Earth-2.

That. Doesn't. Matter. An adaptation is not the original. "Adapt" means "change." An adaptation's responsibility is to serve its own internal story logic and integrity. If it uses ideas from the source, it adapts them to fit the needs of the new story it's telling.

Again: Maybe a half a percent of these shows' viewers, at most, actually read comic books. Probably only a certain percentage of that half-percent would be familiar with Earth-3 in the comics. So it doesn't matter what the comics did. That's not the overriding priority for the show.

Lots of ideas in comics adaptations are amalgams of elements from various different things, rather than exact copies of a single thing. For instance, Batman: The Animated Series's Dick Grayson was a blend of Dick and Tim Drake, and The New Batman Adventures's Tim Drake was pretty much Jason Todd in all but name. In this case, what the television series needed was an alternate timeline that could fill whatever alternate-timeline tropes they needed it to fill. So it had evil doppelgangers of heroes, it had comedy doppelgangers of various people in incongruous roles, it had retro-future tech, it had blimps (alternate universes always need blimps), it was whatever it needed to be. It wasn't about slavishly copying any single thing from the comics, it was about taking whatever they needed from any and every alternate-timeline story in the comics and putting it together into their own thing. The comics aren't holy writ, they're just the raw material.
 
No, you couldn't, because that's something they spent a good deal of time setting up, so it fits organically into the version of the narrative they were telling. If you'd never read a comic book or seen a DC cartoon in your life, you could've followed the progression of the story and it would've worked as a payoff for what had come before. The storyline of the season was designed to build to that outcome. Changing a "2" to a "3" and a "3" to something else would just be a random and gratuitous change.

If they did it with no set-up. If they ever do it, maybe they'll set it up. I can't believe that a bit of pure speculation that they might change the numbers of the Earths has provoked such negative reactions. I don't write for the show, y'know...we have no reason to believe that they'll actually do it.

That. Doesn't. Matter. An adaptation is not the original. "Adapt" means "change." An adaptation's responsibility is to serve its own internal story logic and integrity. If it uses ideas from the source, it adapts them to fit the needs of the new story it's telling.

Again: Maybe a half a percent of these shows' viewers, at most, actually read comic books. Probably only a certain percentage of that half-percent would be familiar with Earth-3 in the comics. So it doesn't matter what the comics did. That's not the overriding priority for the show.

Lots of ideas in comics adaptations are amalgams of elements from various different things, rather than exact copies of a single thing. For instance, Batman: The Animated Series's Dick Grayson was a blend of Dick and Tim Drake, and The New Batman Adventures's Tim Drake was pretty much Jason Todd in all but name. In this case, what the television series needed was an alternate timeline that could fill whatever alternate-timeline tropes they needed it to fill. So it had evil doppelgangers of heroes, it had comedy doppelgangers of various people in incongruous roles, it had retro-future tech, it had blimps (alternate universes always need blimps), it was whatever it needed to be. It wasn't about slavishly copying any single thing from the comics, it was about taking whatever they needed from any and every alternate-timeline story in the comics and putting it together into their own thing. The comics aren't holy writ, they're just the raw material.

None of this means anything, because you're reading too much into a simple factual observation.
 
If they did it with no set-up. If they ever do it, maybe they'll set it up. I can't believe that a bit of pure speculation that they might change the numbers of the Earths has provoked such negative reactions.

It's provoked a negative reaction because it's a pointless idea, one that comes on the heels of people being proponents of another pointless idea (merging the universes "just because").
 
The numbering system was somewhat random in the DC multiverse anyways. Rightfuly the first published characters in the Golden Age should have been on place called "Earth One".

Whatever labels each medium choices they should just stick with. Otherwise it's going to be confusing if they change labels that are meaningless. All season alternate Wells and his daughter Jesse have been said to come from a place called Earth 2. That is what should stay.
 
The numbering system was somewhat random in the DC multiverse anyways. Rightfuly the first published characters in the Golden Age should have been on place called "Earth One".

I always thought of the old school numbering like this: because Earth-1 Barry Allen was the first person we know of to travel between worlds (at least when it came to "regular" DC characters, I'm sure in canon the Monitor(s) were doing it before him), he was the one who got to claim "Earth 1" status for his Earth. Even if the JSA members were older, Barry discovered their Earth, not the other way around, so he got to be from Earth-1 and they were from Earth-2. That's just an explanation I came up with for myself, but that's how I see it being justified.
 
The Black Flash...

theblackflash1.jpg


Article
 
And who's the first person he'd go to for help in getting his powers back in this altered timeline?

Thomas Wayne!

OK, besides him.

Harrison Wells!

And this HW won't know him from Adam.
Or Robert Queen ;)
I don't know if all the hero doppelgangers on Earth-2 were villains... were they?




Right, which is why they renamed Laurel Lance "Dinah" and Curtis Holt "Michael." Oh, wait...

True, they also changed Arrow to Green Arrow and Starling City to Star City. But it's not mandatory.


By the way, speaking of acknowledging the past, get this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...207646343550.116969.1000413311&type=3&theater

I hadn't noticed before, but the lightning bolt and belt on Shipp's Jay-Flash costume are similar in shape to those on his 1990 Barry-Flash costume.
It seems all that we've seen are evil versions, including Zoom (evil Flash)

If they did it with no set-up. If they ever do it, maybe they'll set it up. I can't believe that a bit of pure speculation that they might change the numbers of the Earths has provoked such negative reactions. I don't write for the show, y'know...we have no reason to believe that they'll actually do it.
I think that's mainly Christopher arguing passionately against it (and a few others, like DigifICwriter.

It's provoked a negative reaction because it's a pointless idea, one that comes on the heels of people being proponents of another pointless idea (merging the universes "just because").

Not really pointless... These characters have the same creative team, and now all the same filming location. It will be especially easy to swap non powered chAracters and villains

At some later date, like when Arrow wraps production, and or another show, they can set up a Justice League, for our heroes to "end" on.


Oh, I also wanted to add. It's a lot harder to make excuses to jump world's more than once a season, then it is to make excuses why you can't get a hold of your superhero friend in a Faraway City.
 
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They started shutting down all Suicide Squad references in Arrow 2 years ago.

Do you really think if that's how they operate, that Head Office would ever let Berlanti grow himself a Justice League?
 
They started shutting down all Suicide Squad references in Arrow 2 years ago.

Do you really think if that's how they operate, that Head Office would ever let Berlanti grow himself a Justice League?

That's a good point, but a couple of thoughts:

1) Geoff John's is stepping up responsibility, so hopefully he can work it out

2) if Justice League the movie flops, it's a fallback

3) they can vague enough so hardcore fans know what's really going on...kinda like Rip Hunter's references to Men of Steel and Dark Knights

4) the JL TV version would be more of a code to wind down the D.C.TV era
 
Not really pointless... These characters have the same creative team, and now all the same filming location. It will be especially easy to swap non powered chAracters and villains

First off, they don't all have the same creative team. No single writing staff could handle the workload of writing four shows at once; even doing one show is a more-than-full-time job. They're all produced under the auspices of the same senior executives -- Greg Berlanti, Andrew Kreisberg, and Sarah Schechter -- but each show has its own individual showrunner and writing staff. Arrow's showrunners are Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle; Flash's are Todd and Aaron Helbing; Legends of Tomorrow's is Phil Klemmer; and Supergirl's are Ali Adler and Kreisberg. Logistically speaking, they're still four separate shows, and though the fact that they come from the same production company makes crossovers feasible, it's hardly simple for four different productions to coordinate their efforts.

Second, as I've been saying, you don't need to combine universes to allow swapping characters. We've just had a whole season of The Flash proving that characters from different universes can interact routinely if the story calls for it.


Oh, I also wanted to add. It's a lot harder to make excuses to jump world's more than once a season, then it is to make excuses why you can't get a hold of your superhero friend in a Faraway City.

No, it isn't. I've already listed a bunch of ways it could happen. DC did it all the time for a quarter-century before Crisis on Infinite Earths.
 
Slightly spoilerish for season 3:
Variety interviews John Wesley Shipp, who lets on that Jay will return as a mentor figure next season, and that he's a member of the Justice Society of America, which will tie into Legends of Tomorrow. So I guess that confirms that LoT will be dealing with the multiverse too.
 
I'm wondering if maybe part of the reason they sent Jay to Earth-2 is because perhaps whatever changes Barry makes to Earth-1's timeline won't affect him and the Wellses while they're in a different universe?
Good idea. I could see the Earth-2 & 3 characters not being effected by changes to Earth-1 and it would be a good way to give Barry allies who are aware of the changes to the timeline, without having to spend forever trying to convince them what is going on.
 
I still think any timeline change is going to be undone by the end of the opening 2-parter, or within a few episodes at most, since there's no way Arrow or Legends is going to alter its timeline in response to something on a different show. (Legends is certainly open to changing the timeline, but it would have to be as a result of events within its own storyline.)
 
Slightly spoilerish for season 3:
Variety interviews John Wesley Shipp, who lets on that Jay will return as a mentor figure next season, and that he's a member of the Justice Society of America, which will tie into Legends of Tomorrow. So I guess that confirms that LoT will be dealing with the multiverse too.

On Facebook he clarified his comment
Saying he was just conjecturing on how wide the universe is. At this point there has been no offer for him to do Legends.

My take, not John's, just to be clear - It would not surprise me if it happens, They are still early in planning the next seasons on all these shows.
 
Do you really think if that's how they operate, that Head Office would ever let Berlanti grow himself a Justice League?

That's why he's growing a Justice Society instead.

Had a thought today (for the record, the renumbering Earths thing is so last night; I apologize for any undue pain and anguish that this may have caused, but do not accept liability for compensatory purposes)...maybe their plan is to have Jay adopt Earth-2 as his new home while they play out a long-term plotline about getting him back to Earth-3...hence we effectively get "Jay Garrick from Earth-2". They've established that Earth-2 has no shortage of metahumans...maybe Jay takes it upon himself to find those metahumans who aren't already villains and serve as a mentor figure to them...forming the JSA on this Earth. Maybe
the Hourman we met is from Earth-2's future, and a member of this JSA that Jay will be forming.
 
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