The Galileo Seven

[JonnyQuest037]

^Except Scott. Right?

Scotty rocks in that episode. I was so impressed with him the last time I watched that episode that I started a thread about it:

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/scotty-in-the-galileo-seven.277295/

I guess my point is that the writers surprisingly consistently make the same kind of mistake. Which stems from the fact that the standard usage is so counterintuitive, and thus something a show depicting a bright future might decide to do away with. Clearly, Star Trek has not done so, though.

It seems counterintuitive to me to change it from the real-world usage to one that would only be used on Star Trek. If any viewers are confused by the first officer being second in command, they should turn off the TV and go learn a little about how the real-life military works.

 

[J.T.B.]

I guess my point is that the writers surprisingly consistently make the same kind of mistake. Which stems from the fact that the standard usage is so counterintuitive, and thus something a show depicting a bright future might decide to do away with. Clearly, Star Trek has not done so, though.

Well, twice out of dozens of references. The thing is, it would only be script writers and/or editors who would make the mistake. If those aspects of the chain of command were part of your job every day you'd never make such an error, you wouldn't even have to think about it.

Scotty rocks in that episode. I was so impressed with him the last time I watched that episode that I started a thread about it:

http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/scotty-in-the-galileo-seven.277295/

I totally agree, and as I said in that thread, the way the well-rounded and professional depth of the Scotty character was whittled down to a sort of caricature is something that has always bugged me about the movie series.

It seems counterintuitive to me to change it from the real-world usage to one that would only be used on Star Trek. If any viewers are confused by the first officer being second in command, they should turn off the TV and go learn a little about how the real-life military works.

It's not just the military, either. People commonly refer to Prince William as "second in line to the throne," for instance, with Prince Charles obviously being first in line.

But if it makes us feel any better, Howard Borden on the old Bob Newhart Show was called "second officer" after he had explicitly moved from navigator to co-pilot, so it's not just Star Trek!

 

[Timo]

We could always argue that Vulcans act logically here, and Spock would be called the Second Officer (and Kirk the First Officer) were the Enterprise a Vulcan vessel. In "The Enemy Within", Spock's association with Kirk's chain of command is just 360 stardates old... Perhaps the issue never arose under Pike's command because Spock's position back then was nowhere near the top?

Why Picard would fumble Data's position in "The Battle" is more difficult to rationalize, so perhaps a little dodge would help? After all, Picard says "This is my First Officer, Commander William Riker, second in command, Data, Counsellor Troi" - perhaps we're just parsing it all wrong? Since Bok gave the Ferengi introduction first, using Ferengi terminology, Picard might have felt the need to explain and expand and thus it is "My First Officer, Cmdr William Riker, Second in Command - oh, and also Data and Counsellor Troi"?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JonnyQuest037]

We could always argue that Vulcans act logically here, and Spock would be called the Second Officer (and Kirk the First Officer) were the Enterprise a Vulcan vessel. In "The Enemy Within", Spock's association with Kirk's chain of command is just 360 stardates old...

So now you're arguing that the rule is "The second in command is called the first officer, unless that person is a Vulcan"?

The writer made a mistake and nobody caught it. Deal with it.

 

[J.T.B.]

We could always argue that Vulcans act logically here, and Spock would be called the Second Officer (and Kirk the First Officer) were the Enterprise a Vulcan vessel. In "The Enemy Within", Spock's association with Kirk's chain of command is just 360 stardates old... Perhaps the issue never arose under Pike's command because Spock's position back then was nowhere near the top?

Yes, perhaps it never came up in all those years. And Spock never wondered why the second in command was called Number One all the time.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Consider the pitfalls of the language itself, especially when it comes to context.

'Seconds' can be very good when it involves a food item that you really enjoy.

'Seconds' as used to describe the quality of something has nowhere near the same positive connotation as the first example.

Then there's Ricky Bobby: "If you're not first, you're last!"

 

[UnknownSample]

Scotty was a big relief, the only reasonable buffer between the God's-Gift humans and their noble feelings, and Spock. Scotty would quietly get it when Spock was being practical out of necessity, not just because he wanted to be. Scotty has to b e practical. He's the king of it. And as far as I'm concerned, real Scotty never made it into the movies.
A goofy relative using his ID, maybe.

 

[johnnybear]

William Riker and the woman from the Cage were their Captain's Number One's! In a tight emergency they are the number one people with the answers!
JB

 

[Mytran]

"Galileo Seven" is one of my favorite TAS episodes. TOS shuttlecraft had twin nacelles like the 1701, then why didn't it have warp drive too.

Given that the Galileo was supposed to survey an area composed of multiple star systems, I would say that shuttles having a FTL drive was an absolute necessity!

 

[J.T.B.]

Given that the Galileo was supposed to survey an area composed of multiple star systems, I would say that shuttles having a FTL drive was an absolute necessity!

Not to mention catching up to the Enterprise in "The Menagerie." Within Kirk's and Mendez's lifetimes, anyway!

 

[MarsWeeps]

Not to mention catching up to the Enterprise in "The Menagerie." Within Kirk's and Mendez's lifetimes, anyway!

Actually, the shuttle never caught up to the Enterprise.

HANSEN: Sir, scanners report an object following us, about the size of a starbase shuttlecraft. Shall we reverse helm?
SPOCK: Take no action, Mister Hansen.
HANSEN: But at our speed, they'll never catch us. In case they want to reach us
SPOCK: You have your orders, Mister Hansen. We'll make no contact.


COMPUTER: Library computer.
SPOCK: Lock on to sensors. Measure object now following the Enterprise.
COMPUTER: Computed. Object is a Class F shuttlecraft. Duranium metal shell, ion engine power
SPOCK: Stop. How long before shuttlecraft's fuel supply forces return to starbase?
COMPUTER: Computed. Shuttlecraft is already past point of safe return.

One odd thing I just noticed, Spock asking the computer about the shuttle's fuel supply. He couldn't make that calculation himself? Since when?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

One odd thing I just noticed, Spock asking the computer about the shuttle's fuel supply. He couldn't make that calculation himself? Since when?

He probably could have if he had enough data, but Spock probably didn't know how much fuel the shuttle started out with when it left Starbase 11. Plus, although he would never admit this, Spock was probably also a bit distracted because of Captain Pike...

 

[MarsWeeps]

He probably could have if he had enough data, but Spock probably didn't know how much fuel the shuttle started out with when it left Starbase 11..

Then how did the computer know how much fuel the shuttle had?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Then how did the computer know how much fuel the shuttle had?

Sensor readings? Tapping into the shuttle communications back to S11? Calculating the probable amount of fuel from the weight of the shuttle? I dunno.

 

[J.T.B.]

Actually, the shuttle never caught up to the Enterprise.

But they got within sensor range, which I'd say is sufficient catching up to rule out a sublight trip.

 

[feek61]

Regardless, it just is not practical in TOS to have a shuttle that cannot exceed the speed of light for the stories that were presented

 

[UnknownSample]

Next remastering, they can change those to 23rd century runabouts...

 

[Capn Nick]

The reason, by the way, that a first officer is second in command and so forth is that the Captain is the commander of a vessel (which is a position separate from rank) and is not considered one of the officers serving but the commanding officer. Same reason why Lt. Cmdr. Dax is referred to as "Captain" - she holds the postion of command. Which is a separate distinction from being one of the ships officers. So the first officer (XO) is first among other officers, but second among commanders (the captain being first, obviously, among commanders).

It's the difference in rank and position. Don't know if that's helpful, but I always liked that they appreciated the distinction.

 

[Captain Rob]

Even as a little kid watching for the first time. I didn't have a problem with that. I don't see why other people do. Of course for a long time I wanted to join the Navy when I grew up and learned as much as possible about it.

 

[Warped9]

Regardless, it just is not practical in TOS to have a shuttle that cannot exceed the speed of light for the stories that were presented

I broke this down once and in every instance of a shuttlecraft seen onscreen (except once) it has to have warp drive to make sense.