Timeline for Worf's appearances in the Next Generation movies

[Timo]

There's the odd fact that the E-E is orbiting this all-new prospective member of the Federation, with pomp and grandeur appropriate for the lone representative of the UFP there - and then all sorts of people just pop up from the woodwork, Bolian, Klingon, whatnot. Where are they coming from?

Sure, there could have been a vast entourage of vessels to celebrate the occasion. But showing it would have been nice in that case. If there were lone couriers arriving, wouldn't Picard be informed ASAP, especially as he desperately craved diversions? Had Worf and Adislo just lain in wait on the planet, suddenly beaming up to spring the ambush? Been hiding in the closets onboard for the past week?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Terok Nor]

Worf was still serving on DS9 during Insurrection. Picard mentions something to him about having it easy on Deep Space 9 but he expects him to be on duty on time. The Dominion War is still going on. Riker mentions the Son'a are manufacturing Ketracel White, the drug the Jem'Hadar use. And finally, in a deleted scene Quark shows up for some reason and Worf takes him back to DS9 aboard the Enterprise.

Insurrection definitely takes place during Season 7 of DS9.

 

[Timo]

Worf was still serving on DS9 during Insurrection. Picard mentions something to him about having it easy on Deep Space 9 but he expects him to be on duty on time.

Well, Worf de facto joined Picard's contingent there, so clearly he wasn't serving on DS9! Picard did think Worf would be "returning" to DS9 eventually, though.

However, this tells us exactly nothing about when the movie takes place. Worf could be serving on DS9 at any time before, during or after the war.

The Dominion War is still going on.

Clearly not.

1) There is zero mention of it going on.
2) Our heroes don't take part in it, yet don't consider themselves deserters, either.
3) Our hero ship takes no part in it, either.
4) There are peace negotiations ongoing. The Dominion and the UFP wouldn't be doing any of those between DS9 "Statistical Probabilities" and "What You Leave Behind".
5) The UFP is in cahoots with people who in the war worked (past tense here explicit, yet continuing participation in DS9 late S7 also explicit) for the enemy. Wouldn't happen unless the war were already over.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Terok Nor]

Well, Worf de facto joined Picard's contingent there, so clearly he wasn't serving on DS9! Picard did think Worf would be "returning" to DS9 eventually, though.

Nitpicking is illogical

However, this tells us exactly nothing about when the movie takes place. Worf could be serving on DS9 at any time before, during or after the war.

The fact is was released during DS9 Season 7 tells us exactly when it takes place. If it was intended to be a prequel or a flashforward it would have been stated by those who made the movie at the time.

1) There is zero mention of it going on.

Picard directly mentions the Domnion War near the beginning of the movie.

2) Our heroes don't take part in it, yet don't consider themselves deserters, either.

Starfleet's first duty is exploration. The Cardassian war was apparently going on during the early seasons of TNG but the Enterprise was still exploring the galaxy.

3) Our hero ship takes no part in it, either.

Not on this mission but that's not to say they never took part in it. Or it could say the Enterprise-E was never assigned to fight in the Dominion War and their mission was solely exploration and diplomacy.

4) There are peace negotiations ongoing. The Dominion and the UFP wouldn't be doing any of those between DS9 "Statistical Probabilities" and "What You Leave Behind".

Peace negotiations between the Dominion and the Federation?

5) The UFP is in cahoots with people who in the war worked (past tense here explicit, yet continuing participation in DS9 late S7 also explicit) for the enemy. Wouldn't happen unless the war were already over.

Anthony Zerbe's admiral character was corrupt and obviously had support from others at Starfleet. The Son'a could have ceased producing the drugs for the Jem'Hadar at the point of Insurrection and resumed their relationship with the Dominion after their alliance with Starfleet fell through.

 

[Timo]

The fact is was released during DS9 Season 7 tells us exactly when it takes place. If it was intended to be a prequel or a flashforward it would have been stated by those who made the movie at the time.

Well, no. Movies get released at random dates that in no way relate to anything as irrelevant as ongoing TV shows. If there is to be any connection between the movie and the show, it is through the plot. And the plot establishes a postwar setting.

Picard directly mentions the Dominion War near the beginning of the movie.

As I said, zero mention of the war going on.

If anything, the mentions of the Dominion War establish its non-current nature, as they are equated with other explicitly past threats.

Starfleet's first duty is exploration. The Cardassian war was apparently going on during the early seasons of TNG but the Enterprise was still exploring the galaxy.

There is no consensus on what Starfleet's first duty is. But letting the Dominion devastate the UFP is unlikely to be it. And Picard isn't lifting a finger to stop the Dominion. DS9 makes it perfectly clear how serious an enemy the Dominion is (as opposed to Cardassians whose worst effort in "The Wounded" was laughed off by our heroes). if there's a war going on during the movie, then Picard is one of the bad guys.

Not on this mission but that's not to say they never took part in it.

That's exactly what's to say. Listen to what the ship is about to do next: negotiate disputes at some insignificant backwater Picard scoffs at, then engage in an archaeological expedition whose duration is defined in terms of "seasons"! And what Picard laments about this is that the ship isn't out exploring. Totally despicable if his ship could be helping out with the Dominion war effort. And clearly she could, because much lesser vessels are shown partaking. If there were a war going on, one of those lesser ships should be doing the negotiating and the digging.

Peace negotiations between the Dominion and the Federation?

"The diplomatic corps is busy with Dominion negotiations." There's nothing to negotiate during the war: duplicity has been established on both sides of the tables, in "Statistical Probabilities" and "In the Pale Moonlight", and neither side stands to gain anything from talking.

Anthony Zerbe's admiral character was corrupt and obviously had support from others at Starfleet. The Son'a could have ceased producing the drugs for the Jem'Hadar at the point of Insurrection and resumed their relationship with the Dominion after their alliance with Starfleet fell through.

The movie rather clearly establishes that the Son'a we see are all the Son'a there exist - they are just a spinoff group of the tiny handful of Ba'ku colonists. No Son'a likely to relaunch a war effort on the Dominion side survive the movie.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paul Weaver]

There is no consensus on what Starfleet's first duty is. But letting the Dominion devastate the UFP is unlikely to be it. And Picard isn't lifting a finger to stop the Dominion. DS9 makes it perfectly clear how serious an enemy the Dominion is (as opposed to Cardassians whose worst effort in "The Wounded" was laughed off by our heroes). if there's a war going on during the movie, then Picard is one of the bad guys.

Picard was ordered to negoitate with with Evora. Obeying that order would not make him a "bad guy". Perhaps they'd just had a stressful time liberating Betazed and then Starfleet sent them to use Picard's legendary diplomacy skills on a new strategic ally.

According to memory alpha:

Riker breaks it to the captain: the Enterprise has been ordered to the Goren system to mediate a territorial dispute. Picard expresses his dissatisfaction, with the Federation embroiled in a bloody war with the Dominion, the Enterprise and her crew have been relegated to a diplomatic role.

Implying that there's a war going on. Perhaps the fleet thinks that risking a ship as iconic as the enterprise at this stage will gain very little but could be a massive blow for moralle if the crew that single handedly saved Earth from the Borg not once, but twice, was blown up.

And what Picard laments about this is that the ship isn't out exploring. Totally despicable if his ship could be helping out with the Dominion war effort.

Perhaps he's simply lamenting the fact there's been a war on, and it's been years since they last did some solid old fashioned boldly going where no one has gone before.

And clearly she could, because much lesser vessels are shown partaking. If there were a war going on, one of those lesser ships should be doing the negotiating and the digging.

Who made you Starfleet c-in-c?

"The diplomatic corps is busy with Dominion negotiations." There's nothing to negotiate during the war: duplicity has been established on both sides of the tables, in "Statistical Probabilities" and "In the Pale Moonlight", and neither side stands to gain anything from talking.

This line implies that (as said above), it's after the battle of Cardassia Prime, but before the signing of the peace treaty.

 

[Capn Nick]

In and of itself, I don't think the fact that they aren't on a combat mission proves anything one way or another about the war.

In "One little ship" the Defiant is going to investigate an anomaly for scientific reasons. That is during the heart of the war and it is specifically a warship. The Federation can walk and chew gum at the same time. Also, mostly they must just be holding each other at bay. If they were just throwing all their ships at each other the Dominion war would last 3 episodes. I don't think they would be too worried about decreasing a sectors patrol fleet by one ship for a specific mission to achieve other goals.

 

[Nebusj]

According to memory alpha:


Implying that there's a war going on. Perhaps the fleet thinks that risking a ship as iconic as the enterprise at this stage will gain very little but could be a massive blow for moralle if the crew that single handedly saved Earth from the Borg not once, but twice, was blown up.

Memory Alpha is drawing inferences that are just not on screen. Per the movies transcript:

PERIM (OC): Command wants to know our ETA at the Goren system.
PICARD: The Goren system?
RIKER: They need us to mediate some territorial dispute.
PICARD: Oh no! We can't delay the archaeological expedition to Hanoran Two. That'll put us right in the middle of monsoon season.
ENSIGN (OC): Captain.
(Picard is handed a padd)
PICARD: Thank you.
RIKER: The diplomatic corps is busy with Dominion negotiations.
PICARD: Oh, so they need us to put out one more brush fire. Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?

Nobody ever says ``war'' or ``conflict'' and the only reference even to ``battle'' is Riker ordering battle stations. The only mention even of a ``fight'' is when Picard asks Worf about his Space Zit. There's no mention of a ``campaign'' and the only mention of ``struggle'' is in reference to Picard struggling for the Ba'ku. For a movie happening during a war there's a remarkable lack of mentioning a war being on.

The only hint we get about time is Ru'alfo's charge that in the past 24 months the Federation's been challenged by the Borg, the Cardassians, and the Dominion. If we suppose that Borg reference is to the First Contact bits from the 24th century, and we use the thousand-stardates-to-a-year, that puts Insurrection sometime around star date 52900, give or take.

Most of the last season of Deep Space Nine seems vague about stardates, if Wikipedia can be trusted. But unless ``24 months'' is rounded way off, or the thousand-stardates-to-a-year thing way wrong, it suggests the movie takes place certainly after Penumbra, likely after after Extreme Measures, and plausibly after The Dogs Of War, the last of which puts the movie ... well, sometime around What You Leave Behind.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I always rationalized that all those sorts of crises that the Enterprise used to resolve week in and week out were still going on behind the lines, war or no. Thus with lots of ships being sent into the conflict, the Enterprise and her crew might have been a lot more useful picking up the slack for them than as another gun platform among thousands.

The Federation can walk and chew gum at the same time.

This.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Most of the last season of Deep Space Nine seems vague about stardates, if Wikipedia can be trusted. But unless ``24 months'' is rounded way off, or the thousand-stardates-to-a-year thing way wrong, it suggests the movie takes place certainly after Penumbra, likely after after Extreme Measures, and plausibly after The Dogs Of War, the last of which puts the movie ... well, sometime around What You Leave Behind.

So between the final battle and the signing of the peace treaty seems a very plausible time then?

 

[Timo]

Picard was ordered to negoitate with with Evora. Obeying that order would not make him a "bad guy". Perhaps they'd just had a stressful time liberating Betazed and then Starfleet sent them to use Picard's legendary diplomacy skills on a new strategic ally.

Well, then Picard's superiors become the villains, and Picard their unquestioning henchman. Not much of an improvement there. And still doesn't explain why Picard would be allowed to take his battleship with him for this holiday.

Implying that there's a war going on.

The implication is all wrong - in the movie, the UFP is not embroiled in anything, and what Picard laments is that the negotiations will stop him (and his battleship) from doing archaeology for the next X months.

It's not a case of our heroes doing something else in between fighting events. It's a case of the heroes doing nothing but "something else", mission after mission, and keeping their large and well-armed juggernaut to themselves while some poor sod has to fly a Miranda. If the Starfleet CinC sees nothing wrong with that, I'm quite ready to take his, her or its place, even if it wreaks havoc with my holiday plans.

This line implies that (as said above), it's after the battle of Cardassia Prime, but before the signing of the peace treaty.

There is no such time interval in the Trek universe, though. Remember that Dukat and Winn go to the Fire Caves before the attack on Cardassia Prime even starts - and are still at it after the treaty is signed.

Whatever negotiating is going on is apparently taking place after the signing event for peace/truce treaty that we witnessed in the episode, hence no fighting is going on and all is well in the world of internal continuity.

That is, a more solid peace treaty might have been signed some time after the conclusion of the war, with the negotiations to that end ongoing in ST:INS - but this would be a separate event from the one seen in "What You Leave Behind".

If we suppose that Borg reference is to the First Contact bits from the 24th century, and we use the thousand-stardates-to-a-year, that puts Insurrection sometime around star date 52900, give or take.

Indeed. Although it's a bit difficult to figure out how the Cardassians "challenged the UFP" within those two years no matter what. Of course, Rua'fo could be combining a mention of the puniest opponents in known space with a reference to a truly insignificant challenge just to add injury to insult...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Old Mixer]

^You seem to keep putting forth the idea that every ship in Starfleet had to be on the front lines or it was dereliction of duty. It's a big Federation, they have to need starships elsewhere, even in a time of war. If for nothing else, then to patrol their other border regions against other opportunistic invaders who might consider their worlds ripe for the picking if all their defenses are in one place.

 

[The Wormhole]

I didn't really have much of a problem with the Enterprise being host to an alien delegation. After all, it's the flagship, they'd naturally be the ones being sent to all the Federation's wine and cheeses, even during a war. Perhaps especially during a war, when fishing for allies you'd want them to feel special by sending the top ship out to meet and deal with them. Some of the other inconsistencies, which are no worse than other Treks anyway can just be shrugged off on account that Michael Piller likely wasn't keeping up with the latest developments on DS9. In fact, word is early drafts of the script were going to vaguely mention Jadzia with Picard asking Worf "so how is married life treating you?" This was removed once Terry Farrell's departure was confirmed and they knew the movie would be out after she left the show.

 

[Kor]

It was the lame recurring joke of the TNG movies that Worf would show up out of nowhere with some throwaway line or throwaway scene to explain his presence, and then he would spend the whole movie in basically the same role he had during the series, even though his career had supposedly gone in a different direction!

Kor

 

[Capn Nick]

It was the lame recurring joke of the TNG movies that Worf would show up out of nowhere with some throwaway line or throwaway scene to explain his presence, and then he would spend the whole movie in basically the same role he had during the series, even though his career had supposedly gone in a different direction!

Kor

Not that I think they super played it up, but I kind of liked how they did Worf's entrance in First Contact. He didn't exactly do anything I thought was really character building, but having Riker on Earth and Data in captivity allowed him to be in a little more of that command/first officer relationship with Picard. Something about him in that movie seemed a little more like the more confident Worf of DS9.

 

[The Wormhole]

Something about him in that movie seemed a little more like the more confident Worf of DS9.

It probably helped that the movie was co-written by Ron Moore, who had been working on DS9 at the time and therefore was able to write Worf more in line with how the character was developing since moving over to DS9. The other movies didn't have that benefit, Piller had left DS9 before Worf was added to it and Logan never worked on DS9. They both wrote Worf as he was in TNG.

 

[Timo]

I didn't really have much of a problem with the Enterprise being host to an alien delegation. After all, it's the flagship, they'd naturally be the ones being sent to all the Federation's wine and cheeses, even during a war.

That's another bit of speculative nonsense that the movies don't support at all. The E-E is never indicated to be the flagship of anything!

Really, DS9 tells us a very clear story that every ship is needed at the front lines, right till the very end of the war. If Starfleet wants to use a starship for something else besides fighting during the war, it won't send a combatworthy hypermodern giant of a ship - it will send one of the Mirandas or Oberths. And Picard in command or as mission specialist if that's desirable.

And for the one mission only. Not for a series of missions totally unrelated to warfare, with zero mention of ever returning to said. It's perhaps borderline valid to argue that Picard might be sent to negotiate a desperately needed alliance (although obviously the Evora ain't it), but invalid to argue that Picard would need to be sent to do archaeology immediately thereafter, and utterly unrealistic that the E-E would be needed for either job.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Capn Nick]

That's another bit of speculative nonsense that the movies don't support at all. The E-E is never indicated to be the flagship of anything!

Really, DS9 tells us a very clear story that every ship is needed at the front lines, right till the very end of the war. If Starfleet wants to use a starship for something else besides fighting during the war, it won't send a combatworthy hypermodern giant of a ship - it will send one of the Mirandas or Oberths. And Picard in command or as mission specialist if that's desirable.

And for the one mission only. Not for a series of missions totally unrelated to warfare, with zero mention of ever returning to said. It's perhaps borderline valid to argue that Picard might be sent to negotiate a desperately needed alliance (although obviously the Evora ain't it), but invalid to argue that Picard would need to be sent to do archaeology immediately thereafter, and utterly unrealistic that the E-E would be needed for either job.

Timo Saloniemi

Sure, except DS9 doesn't tell that story clearly. In the episode One Little Ship, the Defiant gets ordered to check out a rare anomaly in Federation space. Sisko says at the beginning that it is a relief to have a break from combat duty. And the Defiant is an actual warship. The Federation still thinks it should spend some time studying the universe.

But even if that were not the case, the Defiant is docked at Deep Space 9 about half the time the war is going on. Now you can argue this is as a defense, but then, we don't know if the Enterprise is conducting missions in a radius of its defense sector either. And if Captain Sisko, arguably a major strategic player in the war, can take days off to go to Bajoran conferences, translate old voodoo tablets and play baseball while the Defiant is docked at the station, then they can certainly spare the Enterprise for a diplomatic mission. I'll admit it isn't baseball, but, you know.

 

[Timo]

And the Defiant is an actual warship.

Except that she isn't. She's an auxiliary to DS9, without a crew of her own, just as you point out.

And no, she's not docked to DS9 in order to defend that station - it's vice versa. In every battle of note, the station protects the ship. The Defiant may be a tough little ship, but the emphasis still is on "little". Having her missing from the front lines would be much less a concern than having an actual starship like the E-E going AWOL.

It would be more helpful if DS9 ever featured a visiting starship that was stated to be doing something as unrelated to the war as Picard's ST:INS hobby projects. That never really happens, though.

(What the Defiant excels in is reconnaissance, thanks to her cloak. And that's what she does, out of all proportion to her mission of being auxiliary to DS9. After all, that's why Sisko dragged her out of the rubbish heap in the first place! But you don't send reconnaissance specialists to the front line. The E-E in turn is not special in any onscreen-defined sense.)

Captain Sisko, arguably a major strategic player in the war

Which is a ridiculous idea in itself. Sure, the lowly Captain is allowed a role in the retaking of his beloved station out of pity, but that's the end of his "strategic" career: the front close to DS9 sees basically no action until the very end of the war (not necessarily unrealistic - think Washington vs. Richmond), leaving Sisko plenty of time to do his actual job of managing his space station, and communing with the all-important Prophets. That his highly positioned friend Ross again takes him along and lends him an ear doesn't really make Sisko a strategic or required asset in the overall war.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

That's another bit of speculative nonsense that the movies don't support at all. The E-E is never indicated to be the flagship of anything!

Star Trek has always been insistent that the Enterprises are meant to be the flagship. Even the original 1701 has since been retconned as the flagship by the Abrams movies. But regardless, Picard is one of Starfleet's top captains and his skills are arguably more on the diplomacy side than as a combat strategist, so again, it stands to reason Starfleet would send him out to these wine and cheeses with all the potential new allies.

Really, DS9 tells us a very clear story that every ship is needed at the front lines, right till the very end of the war. If Starfleet wants to use a starship for something else besides fighting during the war, it won't send a combatworthy hypermodern giant of a ship - it will send one of the Mirandas or Oberths.

But that's never really how we see it, though. Take for example we never see any Intrepid class ships fighting in the war. Indeed, the only Intrepid class ship we see operating in the Alpha Quadrant during the war was assigned a diplomatic mission. Remember, the Intrepid class is also one of Starfleet's newest starship designs, only rolled out a few years prior to the Sovereign class.