Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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You are vastly overestimating the compatibility of Smallville's mythos with what's been set up on Supergirl thus far.
You would have to do so much cannibalization of Smallville's 10 seasons in order to make things line up with Supergirl that there'd basically be nothing left of the show by the time you were finished.
Yeah. What would be the point? Creativity is about trying new things, not just rehashing what's already been done. Hell, Smallville itself was profoundly revisionist. Phoenix219, if you Smallville, then you like the result of a show doing things in a radically new and different way. So why would you want a new show to pass up the opportunity to do the same and potentially create something just as interesting? Why would you want to condemn it to just making a feeble attempt at a pale imitation of the thing you like? That would probably leave you unsatisfied, because an imitation is never as good as the real thing.
Sure, as a fan of the '90 Flash I've enjoyed seeing John Wesley Shipp play Henry Allen and seeing Amanda Pays, Mark Hamill, and Vito D'Ambrosio play namesakes of their original characters, but they're still occupying a different universe with its own distinct history and continuity and approach, and a great deal else is different (different Barry Allen, different Iris West, different STAR Labs, different Captain Cold, different Reverse Flash, etc.). It's not a clumsy attempt to force two incompatible universes together. It's using nostalgia as a grace note, not a sledgehammer.
I guess its more about the characters/actors then the whole mythology - the details of what came before don't matter as much as the fact that some version of them happened, leading into the current status quo (kind of like pre and post crisis, to bring the conversation full circle) - Like Hammill and Pays playing slightly different versions of their characters, I just think it would be a nice nod to a longstanding history (and anyone who invested time in watching SV, the immediate precursor to the Arrowverse shows) to have the trio of Clark/Lois/Lex be played by the same actors as their Smallville counterparts, I guess you could say.
It still remains to be seen how and if Shipp's 90's Flash character is incorporated into The Flash, too... but at this point all of that is just fan theory.
It still remains to be seen how and if Shipp's 90's Flash character is incorporated into The Flash, too... but at this point all of that is just fan theory.
Melissa and Brandon really do look like they could be related. they have similar facial features. I have thought this in the past but seeing them side by side it's striking.
Berlanti and Co. can bring actors from the '90s Flash series in and have them play versions of the same characters they played because there are no major incompatibilities between the 90s Flash series and the Arrowverse Flash series, and because they're not trying to smash the two series together.
However, the way that Supergirl has been set up doesn't allow for that same kind of thing to happen. Even if you were to hypothetically bring actors like Welling, Durance, and Rosenbaum in and have them play new versions of the same characters they had played on Smallville, nothing about the characters as they were portrayed on that series would be able to be carried over (even in an offhanded way) because the two series' setups and mythologies are completely different.
All you would have is three actors playing versions of Clark, Lois, and Lex who bizarrely looked like the Smallville versions of those characters but who were completely different.
I don't see the difference. Playing alternate universe versions of the same characters is both what they are doing on Flash and what I am suggesting for Supergirl. Why would they act completely different? (Other then having years of history that we haven't seen, but that would be true in any variations that we see.)
Because of the way Supergirl has set up its mythology, you would have Tom Welling playing a Clark Kent who would have grown up completely differently than the version of the character he played on Smallville, and who would have become Superman much differently; as such, there would be literally no reason to have him play the Earth-S Superman other than pandering to the fans.
An Earth-S version of Lois played by Erica Durance would be significantly different as well, being closer in age to Clark and having a very different upbringing and career.
With Amanda Pays, Mark Hamill, and the other 90s Flash actor (whose name I don't know), the versions of the characters they are playing in the Arrowverse have at least one thing in common with the versions of the characters they had previously played, but such would not be the case with Welling and Durance.
It would be like having Patrick Stewart play a version of Jean-Luc Picard who was in his 50s and an alien.
An Earth-S version of Lois played by Erica Durance would be significantly different as well, being closer in age to Clark and having a very different upbringing and career.
With Amanda Pays, Mark Hamill, and the other 90s Flash actor (whose name I don't know), the versions of the characters they are playing in the Arrowverse have at least one thing in common with the versions of the characters they had previously played, but such would not be the case with Welling and Durance.
It would be like having Patrick Stewart play a version of Jean-Luc Picard who was in his 50s and an alien.
I just looked at recent pictures of Tom Welling and I do not think he would get in shape for a glorified cameo even if he were willing to put on the suit.
He looks a lot like Dean Cain though these days.
If they ever introduce an uncle of Alex, he would be a good fit.
He looks a lot like Dean Cain though these days.
If they ever introduce an uncle of Alex, he would be a good fit.
Another difference between the '90 Flash cameos and potential Smallville cameos... The '90 Flash was, essentially, a failed show. It ran for one season (with heavy network meddling) and got cancelled. It's basically a cult classic. So bringing in its cast members is bringing new attention to an often-overlooked show that could use the attention. Also, because it's not that widely known, Easter-egg nods to its cast and characters don't stand out to the casual viewer and don't distract from the story. (Most people seeing Mark Hamill as the Trickster aren't going "OMG he's reprising his two-time role from a quarter-century ago!" They're going "OMG it's Luke Skywalker!" or "OMG it's the Joker!") And for those of us who are fans of the original, it's nice to get a little more time with those actors and characters we only got to see briefly so long ago.
But Smallville ran for ten years, which is the longest run for any prime-time superhero TV series in US history. It was successful and well-known, not an obscure cult classic. Its fans got more than enough time with its cast and characters. It was long-running enough and recent enough that too many references to it would stand out too much. If all of its core characters came back playing the star roles of Superman and Lois and Lex, it would just be intrusive, not blending in as smoothly. It wouldn't be something that fits seamlessly into the show's own identity while also, secondarily, providing Easter-egg value for a small segment of the audience. It would be a massive, well-remembered, ten-year-long continuity steamrolling its way into a sophomore show, and there's no way it wouldn't intrude massively on the show's own identity and be disruptive and distracting. It wouldn't serve Supergirl's own needs, but would simply pander to a fanbase that's already been glutted more than any other American superhero-TV fanbase outside of Power Rangers.
Supergirl has already paid homage to Smallville by casting Laura Vandervoort in a new role. It could potentially do the same with other actors from that show, and that approach makes more sense for a show so recent and so well-known. But having a whole bunch of them reprise the same characters and shoehorning in the same continuity -- no. That's selfish for a Smallville fan to ask for. You've already had a whole decade with your version of the mythos. Let someone else have a turn now.
But Smallville ran for ten years, which is the longest run for any prime-time superhero TV series in US history. It was successful and well-known, not an obscure cult classic. Its fans got more than enough time with its cast and characters. It was long-running enough and recent enough that too many references to it would stand out too much. If all of its core characters came back playing the star roles of Superman and Lois and Lex, it would just be intrusive, not blending in as smoothly. It wouldn't be something that fits seamlessly into the show's own identity while also, secondarily, providing Easter-egg value for a small segment of the audience. It would be a massive, well-remembered, ten-year-long continuity steamrolling its way into a sophomore show, and there's no way it wouldn't intrude massively on the show's own identity and be disruptive and distracting. It wouldn't serve Supergirl's own needs, but would simply pander to a fanbase that's already been glutted more than any other American superhero-TV fanbase outside of Power Rangers.
Supergirl has already paid homage to Smallville by casting Laura Vandervoort in a new role. It could potentially do the same with other actors from that show, and that approach makes more sense for a show so recent and so well-known. But having a whole bunch of them reprise the same characters and shoehorning in the same continuity -- no. That's selfish for a Smallville fan to ask for. You've already had a whole decade with your version of the mythos. Let someone else have a turn now.
There's no reason you have to shoehorn in the same continuity at all. Just have Welling, Durance, and Rosebaum playing Clark, Lois, and Lex but without bringing in anything else from it. Sure it's pandering to Smallville fans, but whatever - for as minor a role as it would be on Supergirl, why not? I get what you're (actually) saying Phoenix and I don't think there's any mechanical reason it can't work.
Mind, I still don't think it's a very good idea, at least not Welling - Routh would be a better choice for a past Superman returning. But I'm not constitutionally opposed to it, and Durance and Rosenberg (especially Rosenberg) would be great.
Mind, I still don't think it's a very good idea, at least not Welling - Routh would be a better choice for a past Superman returning. But I'm not constitutionally opposed to it, and Durance and Rosenberg (especially Rosenberg) would be great.
I don't agree. As I said, those actors are far better-known in those roles to modern audiences and played them far more recently. That would make it more intrusive.
And I disagree that the roles would be minor. If Supergirl ever actually does a story in which Superman, Lois, or Lex appears onscreen rather than just being talked about, then it is going to be a huge deal and a major storyline. And the show would have the right to lay down its own pipe, to define its own continuity where those characters are concerned, just as it's done with the other characters that Smallville used, including Kara herself, Jimmy Olsen, Cat Grant, and Toyman. And bringing back actors from a show as recent and long-running as Smallville would just get in the way of that. Even if I were a bigger fan of Smallville, I'd consider that inappropriate and distracting. We've already had a decade of Smallville. It's greedy to demand more. Let Supergirl be Supergirl.
In addition to what Christopher said, bringing Welling, Durance, and/or Rosenbaum back as 'new' versions of Clark, Lois, and Lex would create a false expectation amongst both fans and general audiences that the versions of said characters being portrayed by said actors were exactly the same as the characters they had played in Smallville, which, as I've already pointed out, simply would not and could not be the case, which would create unnecessary backlash against the series when it became crystal clear that the characters were not in fact the same as their Smallville counterparts.
It would be a blatant bait-and-switch that, as I noted, would serve no purpose other than pandering to fans, and would quite frankly tear down the series' quality faster than what has, if you listen to some people talk, apparently been done on Arrow by focusing on Oliver and Felicity as a couple. There's no reason you couldn't bring Welling, Durance, Rosenbaum, or any other actor(s) from Smallville into Supergirl, but it's a ridiculous, counterproductive, dangerous, and ultimately destructive notion to expect or even advocate for them to come in as the characters that they played on that series.
It would be a blatant bait-and-switch that, as I noted, would serve no purpose other than pandering to fans, and would quite frankly tear down the series' quality faster than what has, if you listen to some people talk, apparently been done on Arrow by focusing on Oliver and Felicity as a couple. There's no reason you couldn't bring Welling, Durance, Rosenbaum, or any other actor(s) from Smallville into Supergirl, but it's a ridiculous, counterproductive, dangerous, and ultimately destructive notion to expect or even advocate for them to come in as the characters that they played on that series.
When you put it that way...it's all the more of a crime that Agent Carter got cancelled after two....
Really, anything over one season is a victory for a TV series.
Christopher would your argument also apply to Brandon Routh reprising the role, given that he only had the one film ten years ago which some feel underperformed and logistically since he's already in Vancouver working on one of DC's CW shows it would be (relatively) easy or at least easier to have him than Welling? By the way I'm not suggesting for one second that any other Superman Returns actors such as Kevin Spacey or Frank Langella return even if they were up for that, just Routh and that it be clear that it's not the 'Donnerverse' Superman he played in SR but an Earth SG version of the character.
If Routh weren't already a series regular on a Berlanti show in a different role, I'd be fine with him returning as Superman. But he's simply too well-established as Ray Palmer, so that ship has sailed. It wouldn't work. It would be deeply contrived, silly, and pandering to concoct some convoluted excuse for Ray and Superman looking alike just for the sake of a nostalgia beat.
There are plenty of good actors out there who could play Superman. There's no sense in limiting the pool of candidates to those who've already played the role. If Supergirl ever does cast Superman, they'll find someone new. And that's exactly what they should do. Nostalgia casting can be a nice grace note if the actor actually works for the new character, but it should not be an overriding end in itself. (Personally I'm not crazy about Dean Cain in the role of Jeremiah Danvers. I've never thought he was that great an actor.)
I'd prefer that most of the smallville cast don't come into Supergirl, if only because I'll never hear the end of it. I'd probably be ok with Michael Rosenbaum as I thought he was the best part of Smallville (especially in the earlier years).
One of mates would be ecstatic if the Smallville cast came over as he tells me on almost a weekly basis that a Smallville movie (with the original cast) is due out next year. I think it's because he'd seen some fan trailer or other.
One of mates would be ecstatic if the Smallville cast came over as he tells me on almost a weekly basis that a Smallville movie (with the original cast) is due out next year. I think it's because he'd seen some fan trailer or other.
Maybe this is their chance to get Billy Zane as Lex Luthor.
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