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Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

Christopher said:
No, they really, really haven't. First off, it's not an unknown particle or force that was given that nickname, it was the Higgs boson (which was predicted in 1964 and tentatively confirmed in 2013). Second, the term "the God Particle" is never actually used by physicists in their work; it was the title given to physicist Leon Lederman's 1993 book written to explain the Higgs boson to a general audience. And Lederman, an atheist, coined the term somewhat facetiously, merely intending it as an analogy for both the crucial importance of the Higgs boson to the Standard Model and the difficulty in verifying its existence. Most physicists actively loathe the nickname because of how badly it's been twisted and misunderstood by the general public. It was never, ever, ever meant to suggest any kind of literal divinity or sentience to a subatomic particle.
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Yeah, I read the book 23 years ago. I'll stand by my reasoning for being ok with an unknown force portrayed as being sentient.

BTW, from the book: PP 22-24
 
Romulan_spy said:
I am curious about the finale. The promo shows the Flash and Zoom racing each other which seems like a misdirection. The finale can't just be about them having a race, can it? Surely Zoom isn't going to surrender just because he loses a race!
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I assumed Zoom was planning to use a race as a way to either distract Barry or use Barry's speedforce connection to destroy Earth 2 and/or 1. Alternatively, it could be a set-up for tricking Barry into creating and entering a portal into another universe/dimension/time from which Barry will have to escape.
 
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Tyberius said:
Yeah, I read the book 23 years ago. I'll stand by my reasoning for being ok with an unknown force portrayed as being sentient.
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You can interpret a fictional TV show however you like. I'm not addressing that at all. I was just correcting your misstatement that physicists routinely us the term "the God Particle" (most of them don't use the nickname and actively despise it) and that it was used for an unknown particle or force (it's used specifically for the Higgs boson, which was unverified until recently but certainly well-known as a theoretical concept).

BTW, from the book: PP 22-24
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That passage is merely using the Tower of Babel myth, and the way God screwed up humanity's attempt to reach heaven by sowing confusion and misunderstanding, as an analogy for how the mystery of the Higgs boson screwed up our nice, elegant models and created confusion in particle physics. It's absolutely not meant to imply some kind of mystical or divine nature to the Higgs.
 
It's not on the blueprints, and there isn't a door, but Thawne walked through the walls fine. Although Gideon thought that Thawne was her pal.

Why didn't they ask Gideon who Zoom was, back when they didn't know?
 
Christopher said:
Not just the helmet. The leather jacket Jay wore as the Flash was part of the military uniform as well. Probably the pants too. I think Jay/Hunter's Flash uniform was pretty much just his father's military uniform with wings and a lightning-bolt motif added.
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Right, the whole deal. It would be a real shame if Jay didn't use that same snazzy costume just because Hunter did.
 
I just watched the episode. It was pretty good. Barry being all hyper and "all will be well because SPEED FORCE" was a bit annoying, but I'd say he got about as big a reality check as he could get in the end to balance that out. I liked seeing Barry's Dad and Tina McGee. Although it was brief, they had interesting interactions. Black Siren was pretty intense. I don't get why she got to keep her screaming device, though. It seems like that would be something that Barry could have removed easily.

I really hope Jesse at least gets powers by the end of the season, and they weren't just messing with us by having her and Wally exposed to the energy. Speaking of Wally, he was basically repeating Roy Harper's rise to sidekick, which was a bit lame. hopefully he'll at least know Barry is the Flash by next episode :shifty: Overall, a good episode that makes uyp for last week and gets the show back on course.
 
Dick Whitman said:
I am all for that in theory and the 12 year old kid inside me who first watched his show in 1990 would love it.

But something does not add up about that. The man in the iron mask seems way too skinny to be John Wesley Shipp. Also it appears the 1990 version of the Flash exists on its own Earth. Would that mean John would play 3 different characters? I LOVE John but that would seem a bit contrived in order to get him to play all these different characters.
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I still like the thought that he's still the 90's Flash, using the alias Jay Garrick, and that he's not native to Earth 2 at all.

Really, I'm hoping that "Earth 2" isn't "Earth 2" at all, and maybe if they get Shipp "home" they can develop the rest of the JSA on *that* Earth.
 
I think you might be right on that. Something that felt off about"Jay" from the beginning was he claimed to have only 2 years of experience as The Flash. But that would only give him one more year than Barry. Not much of a mentor. Even if they had planned to cast Teddy Sears as the real Jay, he is still13 years older than Grant. He could have had anywhere from 5 to 10 years of experience being the Flash if the writers wanted.

If there really is an older Jay Garrick it would be surprising that Wells never mentioned him. I would imagine he would know of an earlier Flash. So maybe he is from another Earth.
 
Phoenix219 said:
I still like the thought that he's still the 90's Flash, using the alias Jay Garrick, and that he's not native to Earth 2 at all.

Really, I'm hoping that "Earth 2" isn't "Earth 2" at all, and maybe if they get Shipp "home" they can develop the rest of the JSA on *that* Earth.
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I mentioned that earlier...where Earth 2 seems more like classic Earth 3, where it seems all of our Earth 1 heroes have all been villains.

It could be that the "real" Earth 2 Jay Garrick (Shipp) landed on the pseudo-Earth-2 at the time of the particle accelerator, but Zoom immediately took over his identity

I would love to find out that the Shipp-Jay is part of an active JSA...opening doors to more crossovers and classic characters. (and real superhero mentoring)


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I am sad that Henry Allen died...but the only plus is that it probably means Joe West is safe for the next year as mentor/father figure for Barry.

Both of them did a tremendous job as a father for Barry, and certainly why Barry is a hero.
 
Are they going to answer all our questions next week or will some of this roll into season 3?
 
Spoilers for the Legends finale



we met a member of the JSA. It's not Jay. But we know it exists someplace or in sometime. it's possible that is a clue to the real Jay's origin.
 
Dick Whitman said:
Spoilers for the Legends finale



we met a member of the JSA. It's not Jay. But we know it exists someplace or in sometime. it's possible that is a clue to the real Jay's origin.
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There was a recent interview with the Legends staff where they said they couldn't use Alan Scott for their JSA because he's tied into the Green Lantern property and isn't available. Given that, it's likely that Jay Garrick is tied to the Flash property and is separate and unrelated to the JSA as well.

it makes sense because a show has to be free to develop their own characters. it would be difficult for Jay Garrick to be in the hands of two creative teams.
 
Obviously the Flash is a completely situation! Legends was a spinoff from The Flash. It's part of the same universe. It's cast this season even had two Flash villains. Captain Cold and heatwave. They can use any of the same characters. Now that Supergirl is coming to the CW and a big crossover of all 4 shows is being planned - Arrow, The Flash, Legends, and Supergirl. They will be able to use any characters available to any of those shows. Green Lantern is off limits.
 
Dick Whitman said:
Obviously the Flash is a completely situation! Legends was a spinoff from The Flash. It's part of the same universe. It's cast this season even had two Flash villains. Captain Cold and heatwave. They can use any of the same characters. Now that Supergirl is coming to the CW and a big crossover of all 4 shows is being planned - Arrow, The Flash, Legends, and Supergirl. They will be able to use any characters available to any of those shows. Green Lantern is off limits.
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Once Cold and Heatwave joined Legends, they didn't show up on Flash again. One show has to be the one controllng the fate of a character, for character development purposes. If they introduce Jay, and he is in the position to be a mentor to Barry, I don't see him being a member of the JSA. Two creative teams building on a character can only make a mess of the character.
 
I am not saying for sure Jay Garrick is going to be on Legends or even be a JSA member. It's very possible though that the idea of the JSA is available for all these shows to use. Jay could say he is a JSA member and never appear on Legends.

Also it was revealed Wentworth Miller has all purpose contract for next season. which allows him to guest sta on any of these shows if they want him. They were specific to say he is not the only actor who will have such a such a contract. We are going to see a lot of crossing over of these shows. Not just the big events either. It already happened this past season. Captain Lance and Oliver both appeared on Legends.

I think a team like the Justice Society would be the perfect concept to use in a shared universe. It's what crossovers are built on.
 
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