Space Seed's sudden ending

[Khaless the Unforgettable]

Is there any evidence he was genocidal? "We offered the world order!" implies he wanted to rule everyone else not kill them.

While it's thought (since there are very few records of the time period for some reason) that his reign was lacking in internal massacres or wars of aggression, you don't conquer 40 nations and more than a quarter of an entire planet's population without breaking a lot of eggs.

At no point was he ever not considered a tyrant. And he and his kind were so bad, in fact, that genetic engineering was completely outlawed. Why would that come to be if he wasn't a war criminal in the first place? I mean, we didn't outlaw Germans (and yes, I know that's a silly notion) after Hitler's defeat, and we know for certain what a rotten apple he was.

But hey, if you scrub out all of the bad things Hitler did, and only record the good things, maybe future generations would wonder why the Nazis were considered to be as bad as they were. I mean, he improved the German economy to astronomical heights out of economic despair, created an interstate highway system, created cruise ships for blue-collar workers, created the first Internet (a cable network of radios), created a thriving forestry program, pursued alternative energy sources, encouraged the creation of organic foods and veganism, outlawed vivisectioning, and etc.

He doesn't sound all that bad just from that. But only if you ignore almost everything else he did.

 

[DonIago]

I suspect that if Khan had succeeded he wouldn't have actively exterminated non-augments, but genetic engineering probably would have become a fact of life. A sort of passive genocide, if you will.

A Myriad Universes tale did a rather nice job of projecting things forward.

 

[Mytran]

Khan's overconfidence was his downfall. The time he took to stand above Kirk and boast "I have five times your strength" was enough for our bold captain to loosen that pipe and launch a surprise attack.

Kahn's arrogance as a weakness shows itself numerous times

 

[UssGlenn]

I find Khan a more interesting villain if he isn't totally and unabashedly evil. That means he only kills people based on how they react to his rule, not their genetic profile. That's the difference between a Napoleon and a Hitler. And since that is exactly how Kirk and Scotty describe him, that's what I choose to believe. Having the Augments be genocidal isn't a requirement for everybody else wanting it outlawed.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The OP came so close...the fourth word should have been "stop".

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Marla's almost voluntary betrayal of the Enterprise, only to have 2nd thoughts on it, relatively soon, afterwards. A lot was made of her fascination with Historical figures in general, and Khan in particular, but I'm not buying it. There's a feeling of a missing scene in there, or something.

There's no problem in her betrayal, since history has witnessed reportedly decent people join violent and/or criminal groups seemingly as an "overnight" decision, and eventually abandon the group. You're dealing with a 51 minute TV episode, so certain behaviors have to move from A to Z faster than real life.

Kirk's display of machismo in defeating the undefeatable Khan as the episode's climax. It could've gone so many other ways, but 'they' decided not to make more work for themselves and took the easy way out. All through the Nineties, nobody thought to pound Khan with a piece of pipe and end the war. That's ... that's something.

One, a major point of the episode is that Khan's constant belief in his superiority did not mean he was beyond defeat. He's an enhanced man, not God. Two, the reason he was not defeated in the 1990s is that he had a massive standing government/army around him, so it is highly unlikely he was ever in a close quarters fight situation, because he was in a position where his life would be a target 24/7/365.

No, I think it was perfectly paced and cut. I don't consider the ending rushed or truncated.

Agreed.

 

[BillJ]

All through the Nineties, nobody thought to pound Khan with a piece of pipe and end the war. That's ... that's something.

Someone would have to get close enough, with pipe in hand, to club him to death.

 

[mos6507]

Space Seed is is made a better episode retroactively knowing that the loose ends were tied up in Wrath of Khan. Creative serendipity in a way.

 

[Marsden]

I'm going to take a different direction and say, what did writer of this episode intend for a possible follow up? If any. Do we know if there was any interview/reaction when WoK was announce by the writer?

Could it be possible that Ceti Apha 5 was meant to be a new Federation colony and have it's own representative to the Federation and it's place in the greater Federation, including colonists from other worlds? The captain said it would be a tough place to live, maybe he expected Khan to start a terraforming process to make it more inhabitable and allow less able bodied people to be able to settle there.

 

[DonIago]

I doubt there was ever intended to be a follow-up. Kirk drops off the augments, they do or do not survive, end of story.

 

[Paradise City]

The pipe might not just be an ordinary pipe; it might have some radioactive property. That's what I thought when I looked at the scene given that he had just crumpled up a phaser with his fist.

 

[Leto_II]

I doubt there was ever intended to be a follow-up. Kirk drops off the augments, they do or do not survive, end of story.

This. Being 1960s-era television, direct sequels to individual episodes tended to happen only very rarely, and it's clear from Spock's dialogue in the final moments of the episode (discussing theoretical outcomes taking place no sooner than a century in the future) that there was probably no followup ever in mind by the producers.

Or at that immediate moment, at least. If TOS had continued further on, anything would've been possible, I suppose.

 

[Marsden]

The pipe might not just be an ordinary pipe; it might have some radioactive property. That's what I thought when I looked at the scene given that he had just crumpled up a phaser with his fist.

I think it was just a "pipe". Just because the guy heals faster and has 5 times his strength doesn't mean a pipe to the head isn't going to kill him, and he actually whacked him in the gut and then on the back a few times. Kirk could have easily killed him with a head blow when he was doubled over. I think the beating on the back would have paralyzed or even killed a normal person, and that's with just a pipe or baseball bat.

This. Being 1960s-era television, direct sequels to individual episodes tended to happen only very rarely, and it's clear from Spock's dialogue in the final moments of the episode (discussing theoretical outcomes taking place no sooner than a century in the future) that there was probably no followup ever in mind by the producers.

Or at that immediate moment, at least. If TOS had continued further on, anything would've been possible, I suppose.

I agree, but let me rephrase my question. Outside of realities of TV, when Mr. Spock said: "It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in a hundred years and to learn what crop has sprung from the seed you planted today." I don't think Mr. Spock or Capt. Kirk thought they would all die. I was wondering if the writer had anything in mind. I could understand if the writer didn't, it was a script, they were paid, and that was the end of it. Maybe the line was inserted by Roddenberry or Fontana to not make Kirk too harsh?

 

[Timo]

It's a balancing act through and through. Khan can't be too evil or Kirk's mercy isn't justified and his early admiration of Khan makes him look like a total tool. And Kirk can't be too cruel or he becomes the villain of the piece.

you don't conquer 40 nations and more than a quarter of an entire planet's population without breaking a lot of eggs.

You can still do it without committing a single war crime, though. After all, war crimes are defined by people who love to have war - they won't outlaw the act itself.

At no point was he ever not considered a tyrant.

There's nothing illegal about being a tyrant. (Especially in tyrannies!)

And he and his kind were so bad, in fact, that genetic engineering was completely outlawed. Why would that come to be if he wasn't a war criminal in the first place?

There need be no connection there. Khan could easily be labeled victim of the evil scientists who created him rather than a villain himself, say. After WWI, poison gas was outlawed, not the people who invented, produced or used it; after the Eugenics Wars, the technology rather than the people might have been held at fault, too.

I mean, we didn't outlaw Germans (and yes, I know that's a silly notion) after Hitler's defeat, and we know for certain what a rotten apple he was.

"We" did totally outlaw Nazis, though, with special suspension of freedoms of speech and thought on the issue.

And that was with a whole nation of Nazis. How many supermen were involved in these wars that supposedly touched upon two billion people at least? Five hundred? After all was said and done and bombed to pieces, they knew "some eighty" were missing: every single Augment apparently was listed in a mug file of some sort, and not a thick file at that.

In light of that, it really doesn't sound credible that Khan would have been interested in massacres or purges of any sort. He was happy ruling over inferior riffraff. He certainly wouldn't want higher-quality subjects, least of all competing supermen! Spock Prime really must be talking out of his ass there, with zero basis for his absurd claim in any of the adventures involving him and Khan.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Paradise City]

I think it was just a "pipe". Just because the guy heals faster and has 5 times his strength doesn't mean a pipe to the head isn't going to kill him, and he actually whacked him in the gut and then on the back a few times. Kirk could have easily killed him with a head blow when he was doubled over. I think the beating on the back would have paralyzed or even killed a normal person, and that's with just a pipe or baseball bat.

It looks like a little bit of plastic. Kirk isn't exactly hawkin' it about either; it slips out of its socket quite nicely. It all looked a bit weak for a superman.

 

[FormerLurker]

The idea was to have the Star Trek equivalent of a belaying pin: some seemingly innocuous little piece of equipment that Kirk could pick up to not only defend himself against a superior opponent, but with a little skill in using it, to be able to kick his ass.

 

[johnnybear]

The thing I never fully understood about this theory was that the augments were all of different nationalities! Why would supermen of different cultures live under a leader of another country? Plus didn't they state that the supermen started to attack each other is what brought them down? So why has Khan's crew come from different countries? Khan, Joachim, Rodriguez, McPherson?
JB

 

[Timo]

National identity probably never entered the minds of these folks. They were a nation of themselves, above all others; beyond that, it was a matter of pecking order.

I seriously doubt the Belgians developed a Belgian superman to counter the Nepalese whose Nepalese superman threatened their interests in Brazil by allying with the Brazilian superman. Rather, a single faction took the best mankind had to offer and turned it into the Augment Project, then sold the products to the highest bidder(s), or planned to.

It's a different matter that Khan's crew never actually had any ethnic diversity. It was all WASP, despite the names - in "Space Seed" just as much as in ST2:TWoK. Only their leader was "ethnic", and in an oddball way: he was supposedly Sikh, but didn't look the slightest bit like one (which makes it pretty clear McGivers identified him immediately and tried to keep the fact secret from his commanding officer!). Would this be typical, or a quirk of Khan's posse specifically?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[2takesfrakes]

There's no problem in her betrayal, since history has witnessed reportedly decent people join violent and/or criminal groups seemingly as an "overnight" decision, and eventually abandon the group. You're dealing with a 51 minute TV episode, so certain behaviors have to move from A to Z faster than real life.

These are valid points and all applied, I'm sure. Also, Marla's change of heart did not go so far as to have her sort of "wake up" to what Khan "really" was and abandon him ... even when Kirk won. It's noteworthy, in fact, that when Kirk was finally armed and able to deal with Khan, appropriately, Marla made damn sure to pipe up with, "please ... don't hurt him." And, I suppose, it could be argued that when Khan roughed her up, she committed to his cause because he - seemingly - rejected her, which she apparently couldn't handle.

 

[Timo]

Or then McGivers simply wrapped the two commanding males around her wrist (knowing that a little finger would be too little!), and played them for laughs alternately, finally settling for Khan because he offered more freedom (that is, less jail time).

It's not as if McGivers would appear particularly distressed at any point of her adventure. No actual change of heart needed when the game was proceeding so splendidly.

Timo Saloniemi