Question about Chip & Signature credit cards

[MacLeod]

I think what confuses the matter is that people sometimes use "credit card" and "debit card" interchangeably. Most Americans with a checking account have a debit card from their bank, for which you are assigned (or choose) a PIN, and you use that card and PIN to get cash from ATMs as well as make purchases (which are automatically deducted from your checking account). I just noticed that my new-ish debit card has a chip in it. I suppose this means I can insert the card and then enter my PIN, though I have just been swiping it so far, as my old one did not have a chip.

This is different from credit cards, which in the past you always had to swipe, and then you would have to do some combination of showing your ID, signing the receipt, or entering the billing zip code (I've only seen this at gas stations). These now have a chip, so you don't have to swipe. However we do not have PINs, so you still have to sign the receipt.

The silly thing about the way that this has been implemented, from what I've noticed so far, is that they've made no incentive to use the chip. People are still preferring to swipe rather than insert their card. Inserting actually takes longer (it says something like "please do not remove card" for several seconds, as opposed to swiping which is instant) so people just aren't doing it. At our local Target, when they first got the chip readers they were requesting that everyone insert rather than swipe, and the lines were backed up for quite a ways, as it just plain took longer. You could feel the irritation level rising. Next time I went they actually started requesting the opposite, saying "if you swipe it won't take as long." A similar thing happened at Trader Joe's, they got new chip readers but instead this time the process was taking longer whether you inserted the card or swiped. It was a terribly long wait and managers were pacing about looking frazzled. I don't know what has gone wrong here, whether the software/machines were designed poorly or if being able to enter a PIN speeds up the process, but so far the implementation doesn't seem all that successful.

But isn't that some of that down to adapting to a new way of doing things. it just takes longer to do something you are not used to do something. Once you are used to doing it it becomes easier and second nature.

In the old days of signature cards it was

1.>Hand card to cashier
2.>Cashier swipes card.
3.>Hands customer pen and reciept to sign
4.>Customer signs receipt, hands it back to cashier
5.>Cashier has to check signature and hope it's still legiable after years of use.
6.>Cashier hands card back to customer

Wih Chip N Pin

1.>Customer inserts card
2.>Customer enters PIN
3.>Customer removes card

In the case of Chip N Pin, the card never leaves the customer.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That's one thing I love about restaurants in Canada, they bring the card reader to your table and you dip the card yourself. I wish they did that in the US!

 

[MacLeod]

That's one thing I love about restaurants in Canada, they bring the card reader to your table and you dip the card yourself. I wish they did that in the US!

Same in the UK.

 

[Kor]

I don't mind using Paypal, but I understand why some folks are reluctant. And it does seem silly to use that service when it's to someone standing right in front of me.

I used to accept cheques from my clients until there was a bunch that bounced within the same month. My bank got perturbed at that, and it was disagreeable to have to tell a long-term client that their cheque bounced and that from now on, I'd prefer cash.


Well, it just occurred to me that if someone walked up to me and said they wanted to use a "swiped card" I'd wonder whose card it really belonged to, and why you'd be telling me you wanted to use a stolen card.

Are money orders or cashier's checks common in Canada? The company I work for requires those from a customer if their checks bounce.

Kor

 

[MacLeod]

What's a Cheque?

Good luck trying to pay for a meal out or your grocery shop etc.. with a Cheque in the UK.. You may still use them to send money through the post or to pay a local tradesperson i.e. plummer.

 

[JoeZhang]

What's a Cheque?

Good luck trying to pay for a meal out or your grocery shop etc.. with a Cheque in the UK.. You may still use them to send money through the post or to pay a local tradesperson i.e. plummer.

A lot of tradesmen will not accept cheques anymore - I paid a guy to change a shower in a flat I rent out and I paid him via mobile and got an instant pdf invoice.

 

[MacLeod]

A lot of tradesmen will not accept cheques anymore - I paid a guy to change a shower in a flat I rent out and I paid him via mobile and got an instant pdf invoice.

Well I did say may.

But just how much is the Cheque still used in the USA?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But just how much is the Cheque still used in the USA?

A lot more than it should be.

 

[Kor]

Well I did say may.

But just how much is the Cheque still used in the USA?

I find that in the business sector, it's used a lot... paying for commercial rent, paying vendors, paying taxes and business licensing fees and the like, etc.

In my personal life, I basically just use it to pay my monthly rent.

Kor

 

[MacLeod]

I find that in the business sector, it's used a lot... paying for commercial rent, paying vendors, paying taxes and business licensing fees and the like, etc.

In my personal life, I basically just use it to pay my monthly rent.

Kor

All stuff which could be done be either Direct Debit, Standing order or direct transfer between one account and another.

 

[Timewalker]

Are money orders or cashier's checks common in Canada? The company I work for requires those from a customer if their checks bounce.

Kor

I haven't used money orders in decades (not since the late '80s or so; the last time was when I ordered a Star Trek fanzine from the U.S.). People still do use them, however. Not everyone here is set up to do their shopping and other payments online.

I've never used a cashier's cheque, so I don't know about them. I used to accept cheques in my own home business until a couple of regular customers' cheques started bouncing and my bank was giving me grief for it. So I had to tell them that from then on, they were on a cash-only basis.

What's a Cheque?

Good luck trying to pay for a meal out or your grocery shop etc.. with a Cheque in the UK.. You may still use them to send money through the post or to pay a local tradesperson i.e. plummer.

My grocery store still takes cheques, as long as you present your membership card (it's a co-operative). However, since I place my orders over the phone, it's easier to just use plastic.

I have someone in to help with housekeeping and organization every two weeks, and she takes cheques, cash, or empty pop/milk/juice containers. The depot isn't far from here, and we agreed that since she goes there anyway for her own empties, it makes sense for me to occasionally pay her with my own empties and the balance by cheque. Since I don't drive and would have a hard time getting to the depot myself, it works out nicely.

All stuff which could be done be either Direct Debit, Standing order or direct transfer between one account and another.

There are places that are not set up to take debit or online payments. There's an agency I deal with occasionally for disability services, and they want either cheques or payment in-person, or they said, "you can give us your credit card number." I asked them why they don't get set up for electronic payments, as it would be much simpler for me to just transfer funds at the end of the month for whatever the balance was that I owed, and they said they couldn't afford to offer that (and in any case since most of their clients are senior citizens, they didn't think that most of them would even know how to use such a system).

 

[Relayer1]

Wih Chip N Pin

1.>Customer inserts card
2.>Customer enters PIN
3.>Customer removes card

Or, as it went the first time I used it in my local (very busy) Asda supermarket :

1.>Customer inserts card.
2.>Customer enters PIN.
3.>Customer removes card.
4.>Chip and PIN machine comes with card when removed.
5.>Wires in back of Chip and PIN machine come out.
6.>Alarms go off across supermarket.
7.>Security come running.
8.>Long delay ensues as it is all sorted out...

 

[Kor]

I haven't used money orders in decades (not since the late '80s or so; the last time was when I ordered a Star Trek fanzine from the U.S.). People still do use them, however. Not everyone here is set up to do their shopping and other payments online.

I've never used a cashier's cheque, so I don't know about them. I used to accept cheques in my own home business until a couple of regular customers' cheques started bouncing and my bank was giving me grief for it. So I had to tell them that from then on, they were on a cash-only basis.


My grocery store still takes cheques, as long as you present your membership card (it's a co-operative). However, since I place my orders over the phone, it's easier to just use plastic.

I have someone in to help with housekeeping and organization every two weeks, and she takes cheques, cash, or empty pop/milk/juice containers. The depot isn't far from here, and we agreed that since she goes there anyway for her own empties, it makes sense for me to occasionally pay her with my own empties and the balance by cheque. Since I don't drive and would have a hard time getting to the depot myself, it works out nicely.


There are places that are not set up to take debit or online payments. There's an agency I deal with occasionally for disability services, and they want either cheques or payment in-person, or they said, "you can give us your credit card number." I asked them why they don't get set up for electronic payments, as it would be much simpler for me to just transfer funds at the end of the month for whatever the balance was that I owed, and they said they couldn't afford to offer that (and in any case since most of their clients are senior citizens, they didn't think that most of them would even know how to use such a system).

A cashier's check is similar to a money order in that the customer pays the whole amount in order to have the cashier's check issued. But only financial institutions are able to issue cashier's checks, and not other miscellaneous places like the corner mini-mart as in the case of money orders. And the bank itself guarantees the funds to whoever receives the cashier's check.

Also, cashier's checks are typically used for higher amounts, whereas money orders may have a limit, perhaps $500 or $1,000 depending on where you get it.

But I digress.

Kor

 

[Timewalker]

It's an interesting digression and isn't that far off-topic.

If I wanted a money order, I'd either go to my bank or the post office, depending on which place offered the better deal re user fees and exchange rate. But it's been many years since I've done mail order with anyone who didn't take cheques, credit cards, or PayPal.

 

[Avro Arrow]

A cashier's check is similar to a money order in that the customer pays the whole amount in order to have the cashier's check issued. But only financial institutions are able to issue cashier's checks, and not other miscellaneous places like the corner mini-mart as in the case of money orders. And the bank itself guarantees the funds to whoever receives the cashier's check.

How is that different from a certified cheque? They sound very similar.

There are places that are not set up to take debit or online payments.

There are two local small businesses I semi-frequent that don't have debit, and it bugs me to no end! I barely carry any cash anymore, so whenever I go to these places I have to remember to stop by a bank machine beforehand.

And I seldom use cheques anymore, either. Most stores seem to have stopped taking them anyway.

 

[Kor]

How is that different from a certified cheque? They sound very similar.

A certified check is a personal check which draws from the customer's account, and the bank certifies that the customer's account has enough funds at the time the check is written, and sets aside those funds to cover it when the check is finally deposited by the payee... whereas a cashier's check is purchased for the entire amount (plus a fee), and is issued by the bank and draws from the bank's escrow account.

It may seem like a technicality. I guess a practical difference is that you don't actually have to be a current customer with an account at that bank in order to purchase a cashier's check there.

There are two local small businesses I semi-frequent that don't have debit, and it bugs me to no end! I barely carry any cash anymore, so whenever I go to these places I have to remember to stop by a bank machine beforehand.

And I seldom use cheques anymore, either. Most stores seem to have stopped taking them anyway.

Speaking of not carrying cash... the state of California has various toll roads where the toll can be paid either by cash at the toll gate, or with an account managed online... but not by swiped card at the gate (which certain other states do have). It's rather annoying.

Kor

 

[cultcross]

I am using even chip and pin much less than in the past simply because tap to pay with bank cards has spread so quickly in the UK.

Yeah this has taken off in a big way hasn't it? It's a big improvement in busy environments likes bars.

I have a chequebook I was issued in 2008, I have used exactly 3 cheques from it, so that should last till I retire they're just not useful anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if they're withdrawn completely soon.

 

[JoeZhang]

Yeah this has taken off in a big way hasn't it? It's a big improvement in busy environments likes bars.

I have a chequebook I was issued in 2008, I have used exactly 3 cheques from it, so that should last till I retire they're just not useful anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if they're withdrawn completely soon.

Reading this thread - I dug out our joint cheque book and found that in the last five years we have used... No cheques. My own account, I am not even sure I have a cheque book.

 

[MacLeod]

I think I'm still on my first deposit book that I was given with my account, I simply rarely have to pay something into my account.

 

[JoeZhang]

I think I'm still on my first deposit book that I was given with my account, I simply rarely have to pay something into my account.

Paying in book - now that is even more an item from the past. On the very very rare occasions, I need to pay something in, I just use the slips in the bank.