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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Been away from the Thread for a spell, and really enjoyed catching up. The interview was a crystal clear opacity in the ways and wiles of The Lord of the Wring...

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...and you all have done a fine job of dissecting and diagraming the Latest. For some strange reason, however, I cannot get the image of the "singing into a can" scene from "Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?"

It really struck me that he
(Lord Alec, Steward of Axanar, High Infringer, O.T.R., Keeper of the Donations, Holder of the Keys to the Warehouse of Industry Standards, et al.)
was "singing in a can" in that Skype interview.


"I heard they's a man there pays folks money to sing into a can."

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But, of course, the record he was making was "off the record".

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...Alec is a walking, talking nuke...

This is a strategy of some personality types. Not just a lack of judgment or a compulsion. Same attitude that drives the person who creates every tragedy of the commons -- "they want to settle for less so we can all have some? Nuke that, I'm grabbing till the pushback establishes a new norm, and if I get booted out, there's another meadow just down the road"...

I've not read much of what the PR guy says but from what I have it appears a pretty thankless task. And, with that in mind, I wonder why he's doing it?

He may have partially answered. He said he's in the "native advertising" business (articles/vids put into a website looking/feeling like the site's own content with only small disclaimers). He said what's exciting about Axanar to him is that it is at the front of what will become a new way of inexpensively producing "storytelling" (advertisers jargon for customer endorsement personal stories that are a sales pitch you don't recognize till you've spent time consuming most of it).

Since the whole point of native advertising is getting you to engage before you realize you are being upsold from viewing a product to becoming part of a purchase cycle, I find it an interesting parallel to Axanar in more than the technological way I believe he is citing.
 
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I've not read much of what the PR guy says but from what I have it appears a pretty thankless task. And, with that in mind, I wonder why he's doing it? It must be a paying position (with donors money, natch) because I don't see 'for the love of Star Trek' really being enough of a reason to a) constantly take flak from a lot of people online and b) constantly have to mop up after the defendant has launched another foot-in-mouth nuke.
He may have partially answered. He said he's in the "native advertising" business (articles/vids put into a website looking/feeling like the site's own content with only small disclaimers). He said what's exciting about Axanar to him is that it is at the front of what will become a new way of inexpensively producing "storytelling" ........
I KNOW!!! When I heard him say that I 'STOPPED' that video because I was having a rush of answers to some of my questions falling into place!!

I know he is working without pay. I know this is a veritable minefield of a job; putting out PR fires, trying to handle and clean up after the lead people in this production who are not self-monitoring in any way. I know there was a blog, and/or maybe a vlog, where the defendant talks about wanting investors. And *I* have yet to hear the "I have alwayyyys been a big Star Trek fan" come from him. [granted, I may have missed it -or- it may now be said somewhere because I've mentioned it] And we've been told there are now possible investors, with clearly some big bucks, interested in rescuing the financial burden on this production.

But I have had the thoughts 'Why is he working as a volunteer?' 'What is he getting out of this?' 'Why is the defendant mentioning investors?' 'Why are investors showing up now?' 'Why are they flush enough to give several hundred thousand dollars?' 'What are they getting out of this? A several hundred thousand dollar feeling of altruism?'

While always knowing in the back of my mind that there are good people in the world who do good things just to do good.

But when Mr. Bawden said what he said I stopped the video and said 'That's it!!'

The investors are or will be some native media producers. [EDITED TO ADD: and/or some New Media producers] Mr. Bawden has possibly/probably brought them together to this crippled venture as a motivated seller low dollar (to them) buy-in. Mr. Bawden will be one of the investors -OR- there is a reasonable-to-substantial payoff for putting together this venture move. And/or lots of future work here with substantial payoff in salary. Something,

The defendant is somehow looking to align himself with these high roller investors, a deal may be he becomes 'an' investor with them at least on paper, with his real investment not necessarily having to be much on the money side. The investors buy the studio assets or whatever they're going to be called. And to pay for their costs they can immediately begin making and selling native media video [EDITED TO ADD: and/or New Media productions] for as long as the lawsuit is in play.

No matter how the law suit turns out the defendant is at this time still proceeding with the thought that he can eventually do his film making stuff, distributing them through the digital platform being built by Mr. McIntosh, and which he also possibly/probably has a deal in place for them to be in business together. They are taking first steps to move into the streaming video market. And the native media group [EDITED TO ADD: and/or a New Media producers] would now have a studio where they are going to make their product! With an extremely low buy-in because the seller is seriously motivated, as is parlanced in real estate terms. Easy pickings.

Though my interest in the Trekzone Pt 2 video was and remains the film and film community - when I heard Mr. Bawden say that I said 'That!! That is the Big Take-away from this video! Right there! That's the deal within the deal that's going on!'

I may still have the 'particulars' wrong and/or incomplete in much of this, but if I'm right or even close about the big picture outline of this thing, I have a niggling feeling that getting into bed with these big money business people who will most certainly have their own agendas for such a buy-in that is possibly/probably still unknown to the defendant could, at least possibly down the road, find himself in conflict with the new business agenda - in which he could himself reallllly be getting ready to get in over his head thinking himself the leader of such a merry band.
 
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Any investment in this is a lousy one. Seriously. Because if Axa gets a longer-term lease or a less expensive one out of the deal, then the investors lose out. If they ask for more $$ or a shorter leasehold, Axa (presumably) doesn't agree to the deal. The only deal that makes sense to the investment consortium is to kick Axa out (and Axa should not agree to this, given the capital improvements they've made on the property + the fact that they need a place to house Propworx) and bring in a different leaseholder.

Who would a different leaseholder be? Perhaps a short-termer such as, I dunno, another film, maybe?

That's the creation of a commercial venture, folks.
 
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I KNOW!!! When I heard him say that I 'STOPPED' that video because I was having a rush of answers to some of my questions falling into place!!

Sale option

So on the theory that the "investors" are "putting back" the donor money invested in the infrastructure improvement, what the "investors" would be buying "for free" is the discounted labor provided by Axanar staff and volunteers in building the asset, and possibly, some material goods not accurately tracked in the accounting and attributed to overhead operating expenses in the Axanar budget.

If through a sale the donor money becomes available again for pure film shooting, then Axanar Productions can possibly duck lawsuits from donors. A bunch of people who worked for minimum wage probably aren't gonna sue for their donated time.

But then there's also CBS/P, and their possible right to put a claim on any true value of this asset. If it is proposed to be sold for less than market value, they might object. If its sold thats cash that they could go after in settlement.

Investing option

If the money sources are somehow are going to be true investors in Axanar Studios and infuse money and then lease the place for their business goals (and presumably take some control as part of the terms of their investment), then I would think the donors might have an issue with that. Investors probably wouldn't want their investment given back to the donors. Donors sure as heck aren't going to want their million dollars ending up paying for a studio controlled by advertisers who out of the grace of their hearts let a fan film get shot now and then.

Investors probably aren't going to want their investment given to CBS/P, but they might calculate this as a risk worth taking if they can line up a few production clients in the short term; and they might be planning to create a new company or otherwise protect the assets from the lawsuit.

Generally

If your analysis is accurate, it does look like the donors will be screwed either way. It seems like a plausible explanation. It does look like donors may be doubly preyed-upon if this develops.

AND, this is not just little boys room talk (no offense to the original suggester of that idea, but that's really not an accurate characterization of the core of what is going on in this thread).
 
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Sale option
So on the theory..........
If through a sale the donor money becomes available again for pure film shooting,....
But then there's also CBS/P, and their possible right to put a claim ..........

Investing option
If the money sources are somehow are going to be true investors in Axanar Studios and infuse money ...................
Investors probably aren't going to want their investment given to CBS/P, but they might calculate this as a risk ........

Generally
If ..............................

AND, this is not just little boys room talk (no offense to the original suggester of that idea, but that's really not an accurate characterization of the core of what is going on in this thread).
Nice. Interesting examination of my hypothesis.
 
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Sale option

So on the theory that the "investors" are "putting back" the donor money invested in the infrastructure improvement, what the "investors" would be buying "for free" is the discounted labor provided by Axanar staff and volunteers in building the asset, and possibly, some material goods not accurately tracked in the accounting and attributed to overhead operating expenses in the Axanar budget.

If through a sale the donor money becomes available again for pure film shooting, then Axanar Productions can possibly duck lawsuits from donors. A bunch of people who worked for minimum wage probably aren't gonna sue for their donated time.

But then there's also CBS/P, and their possible right to put a claim on any true value of this asset. If it is proposed to be sold for less than market value, they might object. If its sold thats cash that they could go after in settlement.

Investing option

If the money sources are somehow are going to be true investors in Axanar Studios and infuse money and then lease the place for their business goals (and presumably take some control as part of the terms of their investment), then I would think the donors might have an issue with that. Investors probably wouldn't want their investment given back to the donors. Donors sure as heck aren't going to want their million dollars ending up paying for a studio controlled by advertisers who out of the grace of their hearts let a fan film get shot now and then.

Investors probably aren't going to want their investment given to CBS/P, but they might calculate this as a risk worth taking if they can line up a few production clients in the short term; and they might be planning to create a new company or otherwise protect the assets from the lawsuit.

Generally

If your analysis is accurate, it does look like the donors will be screwed either way. It seems like a plausible explanation. It does look like donors may be doubly preyed-upon if this develops.

AND, this is not just little boys room talk (no offense to the original suggester of that idea, but that's really not an accurate characterization of the core of what is going on in this thread).

I think that the donors will be screwed whatever ends up happening, even if it isn't one of these two possibilities. The only way I can see donors not being screwed is if everyone gets a full refund and we all know that is never going to happen. (But I would be thrilled if the future proved me wrong.)
 
That's the creation of a commercial venture, folks.
Good point.

Now if they rent out the space as in:
Because they're receiving benefits that pay this humongous monthly upkeep, can this also be perceived by the court as some type of commercial benefit?

No no no, never mind. The studio isn't in the court's sites. It's the films, because of the IP infringement.

My bad.
 
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[edit: this is pertaining to a comment which has since been removed]

The lawsuit environment here may be different from where you are. I think things perceived as threats can be actionable. I trust you were just being hyperbolic in your expression, and will say so.
 
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The lawsuit environment here may be different from where you are. I think things perceived as threats can be actionable. I trust you were just being hyperbolic in your expression, and will say so.

Of course my statement was in jest... I'm just pissed off with him accusing *me* of being a hater...

There are in fact, eight kinds of hell - but he does not deserve the last one
 
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