"Avatar" Sequels Delayed...does anybody care?

[BigJake]

It's more than anecdotal but true it's hard to gauge how loud that voice/thought truly is, but it's there in quantity.

It's a matter of what you want to see. It's easy for a small and not-very-representative population of geekdom to flood places like YouTube or entertainment news comments threads; it's not really an indicator that their views are mainstream "in quantity" (I certainly would never have known this many Trekkies were this apparently... uh, some type of way about Avatar before actually coming here, for instance). To go even further and generalize from that to "nobody liked or cared for the story" is more than just hasty.

 

[Captain Craig]

All I know is what I see.
I could flip it and say one "doesn't want to see" the growing disdain.
You choose to see "the same voices repeating in multiple places".

Was it the same voices that found nuFantastic Four crap? Results, no one showed despite Jordan saying "they'll show up"
Will that be the case with nuGhostbusters?
Those same voices are just as likely to be the ones voicing a growing "MEH" with Avatar.

 

[BigJake]

Was it the same voices that found nuFantastic Four crap?

Trying to compare Avatar to nuFantastic Four is delusional on its face. Given that one of the two franchises set box office records and spawned its own subcultural phenomenon and the other didn't. Talk about seeing what you want to see.

I mean, put it this way. When a supposedly overwhelming preponderance of opinion about a movie has never yet significantly impacted its numbers on any review site (taken with all the caveats about review sites being unscientific measures of opinion, they're still at least a rough kind of indicator), it's probably not an overwhelming preponderance, just a small number of voices trying to amplify themselves through repetition. It's always seemed to me to be basically the same small population of dissenters who were dismissive from the beginning, most often on account of being uncomfortable with a movie where western European culture was shown in a negative light.

 

[Reverend]

I find a good rule of thumb is to look at the opening weekend box office then the second and see how much of a drop there is. The average person may be conned into going to see a crap film once, but not a second time and certainly not once the words out.

By that metric, FanFourStick was pretty universally regarded as crap and quickly forgotten about. Indeed I'd honestly forgotten it even existed until it was brought up in this thread.
Avatar just kept going and going. Clearly people enjoyed it and went to see it multiple times. For all those that cry out "it's Dances With Smurfs!" I would ask them where exactly in the marketing were they mislead to believe that they were going to see a complex and deeply evocative thriller full of twists and rich with deep characterization? Because all I remember seeing was trailers that basically said "look! Blue cat people riding flying alien dinosaurs!!!" I certainly got what I was promised.

 

[Relayer1]

I would ask them where exactly in the marketing were they mislead to believe that they were going to see a complex and deeply evocative thriller full of twists and rich with deep characterization? Because all I remember seeing was trailers that basically said "look! Blue cat people riding flying alien dinosaurs!!!" I certainly got what I was promised.

That is a very good point.

 

[BigJake]

I think what can be fairly said is that "not many people think the story is very original." That's a different thing from "nobody liked or cared about the story." There are any number of simple, not very original stories which are iconic in film because of the way they're told.

 

[Mr Light]

Obviously there's no way the Avatar sequels will top the original in the box office, but they're still going to be billion dollar movies. Avatar was a cultural phenomenon; sure it's been too many years now, but once people get reminded of it they'll come back in droves. And they just happened to have one of a hell of a reminder being built in Disney World right now

 

[HIjol]

To address the OP directly, I do care that the film(s) is/are going to be delayed. I am getting older, and I do not want to be pushing 80 when some of the last ones will be finished. Technology is advancing, warp speed, and I am sad that I have limited time left to witness the wonders!

(Derail: ...for the Love of All That is Holy, will Somebody puhleeeeeeze hurry up and make "Ringworld"!)

 

[Captain Craig]

Trying to compare Avatar to nuFantastic Four is delusional on its face. Given that one of the two franchises set box office records and spawned its own subcultural phenomenon and the other didn't. Talk about seeing what you want to see.

You're not following along.
I never once compared THE FILMS. You misread. I am comparing the recent ONLINE COMMENTARY.

As someone noted I'm sure the first sequel will open well enough. I don't look to see the multiple re-watches push it past $600m. I'd say $500m but with inflation and 3-D prices it'll pass $500m. I will not be surprised that the drop off from A2 to A3 is so significant that by the time A5 rolls out it's starting to feel like the percentage drop of film to film sister of the Divergent series.

 

[bigdaddy]

Avatar was a cultural phenomenon; sure it's been too many years now

It was? If it was then shouldn't it be remembered for more than 6 months?

 

[BigJake]

You're not following along.
I never once compared THE FILMS. You misread. I am comparing the recent ONLINE COMMENTARY.

No, it's that comparison I was referring to and I'm saying that it's silliness. Avatar was a profitable, highly-praised powerhouse with a small cohort of dissenters whose noise level is out of proportion to their apparent impact on anything quantifiable. The Fantastic Four films are universally panned failures by virtually any metric. If you see anything comparable in their "recent online commentary" I respectfully submit you are kidding yourself.

 

[Relayer1]

they're still going to be billion dollar movies. Avatar was a cultural phenomenon; sure it's been too many years now, but once people get reminded of it they'll come back in droves.

I don't know. I don't get either the affection from the 'genre' community common to major works and franchises, or immediate cultural awareness amongst casual cinema goers. It's kind of 'Avatar ? Oh, I remember that.'

 

[Takeru]

Trying to compare Avatar to nuFantastic Four is delusional on its face. Given that one of the two franchises set box office records and spawned its own subcultural phenomenon and the other didn't.

How did Avatar spawn anything except a bunch of 3D movies? A subcultural phenomenon? Where? I don't see cosplayers dressing up as Avatar characters, I don't see a siginificant amount of fan fiction or art and the only talk on the internet I do see about is is usually negative.
You are right, many great films have detractors who didn't like it and will make that known but that doesn't make the fans disappear. Well, where are the Avatar fans?
What did you like about Avatar? What made it a great movie? No one's arguing that it wasn't incredibly successful financially and it influenced the industry but what made it a great movie and deserving of FOUR sequels? It hasn't even proven that it has legs as a franchise, what if people don't come back for the sequel? Then they're stuck with three more.
While it's true that people being worried and Cameron proving them wrong has happened several times before there will be the one movie where he falls flat on his face and it really could be this time because it feels like he's out of control, how long has he been writing and expanding and tinkering with the script and developing technology? At some point you have to actually start filming and that point was seberal years ago.

Obviously there's no way the Avatar sequels will top the original in the box office, but they're still going to be billion dollar movies.

People said that about Batman v Superman, it didn't happen.

 

[BigJake]

How did Avatar spawn anything except a bunch of 3D movies?

Only film I know of to have ever spawned its own psychological disorder. I wouldn't rank its fan community with SW or Trek in terms of fanaticism just yet, but you can believe there are people out there learning Na'Vi and cosplaying blue cat-elves as we speak, and that their ranks will multiply massively when the sequels come out.

I'm not one of those people, but I can see the appeal. It has a well-realized and thought-through world (my inner nutty geek loves that part), and besides that, the anti-Avatar brigade's constant, nigh-on-desperate attempts to talk down the story seem very silly and pointless to me: it's a perfectly cromulent rendering of the kind of white-man-goes-native storyline western civilization has been telling for centuries, it has great action, fun characters, I don't really see what's not to like.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Well, where are the Avatar fans?

Apparently, you've not been reading this thread.

Actually, I've very curious where they are going to go with The Avatar Universe, and I have been recently wondering what was going on, so, yea, I kinda care.

One of my favorite films of all time, ...

Easily among the top five SF movies of the 21st century for me, at the very least.

I still look forward to Avatar because Cameron makes good, entertaining movies because he cares about what he does.

I felt like I was literally trasported to Pandora while watching the film and to this day, I'm still impressed by the film. I've not watched it since, nor do I really care to (I can't come close to recreating how I originally saw it on my own) but all the story flaws I usually have with Cameron's films aside, I'm quite looking forward to the sequels.

As for the original Avatar: I liked it. Very competently done, well acted and one of the greatest visual spectacles in recent memory. The core plot may have been familiar (if people think 'Dances with Wolves' was the first to use that trope, they haven't seen very many films) but compared to a lot of other summer blockbusters of late, I'd call it refreshingly straight forwards. Hell, it's fucking genius level quality compared to just about anything by Michael Bay.

If they need the time to form a more coherent story and universe please go ahead.. i'll be in the movie seat when it is released because i really like the first one even though the story is a bit basic.

The first film was extremely derivative story-wise, but the acting and action were enjoyable, and the world-building was fantastic. What Cameron misses in the big picture with the simplistic and familiar plot, he makes up for in the execution of the details. It's a beautiful looking film and a great technological advancement in filmmaking.

So while I think the first film stands alone well enough and won't be too bothered if we don't get anything else, I am looking forward to seeing more developments in this universe.

I'm looking forward to them. Doubtless Cameron will break his own record - again - for the most successful movies of all time; no one ever seems to manage that in the intervening decade or so between his releases.

I don't go to 2D exhibitions of movies released in 3D unless I'm required to in order to satisfy a companion.

I watched Avatar for the first time on DVD on my SDTV. It had decent CG, but I enjoyed it for the story, not the effects

I liked the first one and I'll be seeing the sequels.

And I'm enough of a reader that the film didn't immediately remind me of any particular 90's movie.

I'm curious as to where Cameron will take the sequels, I really liked the look of Pandora. And while the story of Avatar can be seen in a number of other movies, the universe Avatar is set in is a rich one.

Personally I really enjoyed the original, and obviously looking forward to a sequel. But... well just make sure you concentrate on making the first sequel a decent movie and not spreading yourself too thin thinking about 3, 4 and 5! You only have to look at the likes of the Amazing Spider-Man and Terminator: Genysis films of folk getting carried away with themselves thinking so far ahead..

I stopped after a while there, so there might be more in this very thread. Oh, and count me as a fan, as well.

 

[B.J.]

Alright, so has anyone heard anything of what the plot of A2 might be? Hopefully not a retread of A1. And if they parallel the Navi with the fate of the Native Americans, the series would certainly end up a tragedy, which I wouldn't want to see.

 

[theenglish]

Well it was a B-movie, no?
About six and a half million IIRC, which even for '84 was pretty low. For comparison E.T., Poltergeist, Star Wars & Wrath of Khan were all around the 10-13 million mark and I think Raiders & Ghostbusters were 20 & 30 million respectively.

The point being, look at what Cameron did with such limited resources. Then look at what he did later with a *lot* more resources.

I tend to agree that the writing in his movies can be a little on the shallow side, but in the very least there's usually a solid concept behind the scripts, there's usually a lot of heart and overall he casts very well. 'The Abyss' is probably the one with the loftiest ideals, though you'd only really know it if you watched the 'Special Edition' cut. Next to the likes of Michael Bay who has a similar reputation for pretty looking movies with the depth of a teaspoon, I'd take a Cameron movie any day (and twice on Thursdays.)

I agree with all of this. I forgot about The Abyss--I think I actually enjoyed that in the theatre more than Terminator. And I did really like Terminator.

 

[Draculasaurus]

Avatar was firmly in the Edgar Rice Burroughs adventure style. Hopefully that carries through to the sequels because ERB stories generally don't re-tread, but dig in and explore some other aspect of the established world.
I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[Set Harth]

I don't see cosplayers dressing up as Avatar characters

 

[Reverend]

*types "Avatar cosplay" into google images"

Well, I certainly see a lot of people cosplaying as Na'vi. Mostly women it seems. Covered in bodypaint. And not much else.
I'm actually surprised as I rather expected most of the results to be The Last Airbender related, but they seem to be in the minority... Scratch that; I'm not surprised at all.