Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Alidar Jarok]

My post was referencing Marvel pushing the Inhumans over the X-Men in the comics. From the Terrigen Mists sterilizing all mutants on Earth, to it now being considered lethal to mutants, and even Mr. Sinister saying that Inhuman genes are superior to mutant genes in Extraordinary X-Men. Sinister feels there's no need to save the mutant population. Add in things like Avengers vs X-Men (2012), Cyclops being turned into an almost villain (they've walked some things back) and a murderer, killing off of Deadpool (prior to his film release), also killing off Wolverine and retconning Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch from ever being mutants (as well as no longer being Magneto's children).

It really just seems like the X-Men/Mutants in the Marvel Universe are personae non gratae. In the wake of all this, the Inhumans' star has been rising, with more Inhuman titles and event comics and Agents of SHIELD being turned into an Inhuman centered show. All while treating the Inhumans like they are the X-Men. Subbing out one and filling in another.

I knew what you're saying. My point was whether I agree or disagree (and I do disagree), it's irrelevant here. The Inhumans movie scheduling has nothing to do with the popularity of the Inhumans in other mediums or anything at all to do with the X-Men (which the movies have no control over anyway).

 

[Christopher]

I knew what you're saying. My point was whether I agree or disagree (and I do disagree), it's irrelevant here. The Inhumans movie scheduling has nothing to do with the popularity of the Inhumans in other mediums or anything at all to do with the X-Men (which the movies have no control over anyway).

It's the other way around. The comics are pushing the Inhumans over the X-Men because of the movie-rights situation. The movies are a far, far bigger revenue stream for Marvel Entertainment than the comics, and since Fox has the X-Men rights, Marvel seems to be downplaying them in favor of the things they do have the rights to. (Similarly, the Fantastic Four are currently dissolved in the comics, with a couple of their members having joined other teams.) At least, that's the claim that's been made about Marvel's motives behind their comics decisions.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The Fantastic Four are dissolved in the comics because nobody bought their comics so they decided to try something different. The X-Men had a crazy number of books so they decided to streamline it in order to promote more books (although the Spider-Man spinoffs seem to be the real winner there). Marvel is promoting the Inhumans, yes. And the'yre hoping that a conflict between the X-Men and Inhumans will get people to read the Inhumans (since they know the X-Men sell well anyway).

But all of this is irrelevant. My point was this has absolutely nothing to do with the movie and it getting pushed back, which is what I was responding to (and why we're in the movie thread, not the comic book thread, right now).

 

[Mr Light]

I'm actually surprised that Marvel continues to publish a gagillion X-Titles like normal given their treatment of FF. I guess the X-Titles just sell too damn well to @%#can them?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I knew what you're saying. My point was whether I agree or disagree (and I do disagree), it's irrelevant here. The Inhumans movie scheduling has nothing to do with the popularity of the Inhumans in other mediums or anything at all to do with the X-Men (which the movies have no control over anyway).

My initial comment of " The Inhumans are no X-Men!" was tongue in cheek joke about the current situation of the X-Men and Inhumans situation on the small and big scale. The punchline is that no one is clamoring for more Inhumans material or an Inhumans movie. Marvel keeps trying to make the Inhumans "happen" and to do this they've taken to supplanting role the X-Men fill. If you didn't think it was funny, that ok.

I know Disney and Fox own the film rights to the respective IPs. However, I like to imagine that all Inhumans plans Marvel has would be scrapped in a heartbeat, if they knew they had access to the X-Men film rights. I imagine a big turn around to undo the bad situation Marvel has saddled the mutants with in the comics. But with the kind of money Fox is making off their X-properties, I don't imagine that will ever happen anytime soon.

 

[Set Harth]

Dr.Strange trailer just dropped!

 

[bbjeg]

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[Arrrrgggh]

My initial comment of " The Inhumans are no X-Men!" was tongue in cheek joke about the current situation of the X-Men and Inhumans situation on the small and big scale. The punchline is that no one is clamoring for more Inhumans material or an Inhumans movie. Marvel keeps trying to make the Inhumans "happen" and to do this they've taken to supplanting role the X-Men fill. If you didn't think it was funny, that ok.

I know Disney and Fox own the film rights to the respective IPs. However, I like to imagine that all Inhumans plans Marvel has would be scrapped in a heartbeat, if they knew they had access to the X-Men film rights. I imagine a big turn around to undo the bad situation Marvel has saddled the mutants with in the comics. But with the kind of money Fox is making off their X-properties, I don't imagine that will ever happen anytime soon.

On one hand, I feel bad for Marvel since it really is their brainchild and they've proven that they can make good / fun movies. On the other hand, I don't feel bad for them at all since it was their idea to sell those IPs in one of the most colossally stupid ways imaginable. "As long as you do something with it every X years, you get to keep it, no extra money for us [I presume] or anything!"

But that said, yeah. The Inhumans just aren't the X-Men no matter how much they effectively are. It's pretty much because certain X-Men are popular, though, as most of the well-known Inhumans are... well, just annoying assholes with powers that are also annoying. I mean, yay, their most powerful leader is a guy who can't say a single word! And that's pretty much the only thing anyone who knows of him outside of really hardcore Inhuman fans know about him. "Oh, and there's that one chick who, like, has living hair or something, too, right?"

They're just never going to catch on despite Marvel's best efforts. Maybe the movie will change that if they manage to pull another Guardians of the Galaxy with them, but I kinda doubt it.

But hey, at least they're gaining limited access to Spider-Man, so maybe there is some hope of them doing the same with the X-Men at some point in the future. It's just a shame that they're basically being screwed in the way they should have screwed the studios in the first place by only gaining limited access to the characters. I mean, how sad it is when you have to get someone else's permission to use your own characters in your own stories?

 

[Starbreaker]

I'm actually surprised that Marvel continues to publish a gagillion X-Titles like normal given their treatment of FF. I guess the X-Titles just sell too damn well to @%#can them?

X-Men titles regularly sell between 40-80k copies. Marvel did put a moratorium on new X-Men when they dissolved the Fantastic Four though. They find little ways to screw with Fox.

 

[Skywalker]

On one hand, I feel bad for Marvel since it really is their brainchild and they've proven that they can make good / fun movies. On the other hand, I don't feel bad for them at all since it was their idea to sell those IPs in one of the most colossally stupid ways imaginable. "As long as you do something with it every X years, you get to keep it, no extra money for us [I presume] or anything!"

In their defense, they were in some pretty dire financial straits at the time, and comic book movies weren't big business back then, either, so it's not like they had much leverage.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

I'm aware. I still can't really feel bad for them; they thought it was a worthwhile move at the time, and now they're forced to deal with it, no matter how boneheaded it was in the first place. I mean, why wouldn't you want to at least include a "as long as we get a share of it after X years" or something similar? Or even an option to buy it back? That's just some bad lawyerin' there on their side.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I'm actually surprised that Marvel continues to publish a gagillion X-Titles like normal given their treatment of FF. I guess the X-Titles just sell too damn well to @%#can them?

Or Ockham's Razor: Remove the secret conspiracy to destroy them and it's easy - they have X-Men and don't have Fantastic Four because X-Men sell well and Fantastic Four does not. They cancelled Howling Commandos of SHIELD and Black Knight (who technically predates Marvel) because they didn't sell well. It isn't "well, we want to destroy them but can't because they're selling too well."

My initial comment of " The Inhumans are no X-Men!" was tongue in cheek joke about the current situation of the X-Men and Inhumans situation on the small and big scale. The punchline is that no one is clamoring for more Inhumans material or an Inhumans movie. Marvel keeps trying to make the Inhumans "happen" and to do this they've taken to supplanting role the X-Men fill. If you didn't think it was funny, that ok.

But that's unfair. There are plenty of people who are fans of Inhumans. You may not be, but that doesn't mean nobody is. Marvel is pushing the Inhumans because they haven't gotten a lot of attention over the years, but have interesting stories to tell.

I know Disney and Fox own the film rights to the respective IPs. However, I like to imagine that all Inhumans plans Marvel has would be scrapped in a heartbeat, if they knew they had access to the X-Men film rights.

Why? The Inhumans are nothing like the Mutants in the comics and there's no indication the movie will have them act like a substitute for mutants. They have more in common with Black Panther than X-Men. I don't see why they would scrap an Inhumans movie if they had the X-Men. They'd probably push it back, of course, but that's because the X-Men are more popular - just like they pushed it back for Spider-Man.

X-Men titles regularly sell between 40-80k copies. Marvel did put a moratorium on new X-Men when they dissolved the Fantastic Four though. They find little ways to screw with Fox.

It's a myth that there's a moratorium on new X-Men (it doesn't even make sense, since when has Fox borrowed from recent continuity?). People have been saying that a moratorium has existed for years despite the demonstrative proof otherwise (i.e., there have been new mutants). If we're talking about since October - it's been six issues. Do you have any source that actually claims the moratorium has only been since Secret Wars? I've only seen a suggestion that it's been in place for several years.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Lots of people have heard of Karnak, but they're thinking of Johnny Carson in a turban holding envelopes to his head.

 

[Mr Light]

I only mean to say, I'm surprised they didn't pair it down to 5 or so titles instead of 20.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It would seem that Carol Danvers will not be appearing in a Marvel movie prior to her own. She will debut in her own movie and then appear in Infinity War part 2.

 

[JD]

I guess that rules out the actress from Ragnarok being Carole Danvers then.

Or Ockham's Razor: Remove the secret conspiracy to destroy them and it's easy - they have X-Men and don't have Fantastic Four because X-Men sell well and Fantastic Four does not. They cancelled Howling Commandos of SHIELD and Black Knight (who technically predates Marvel) because they didn't sell well. It isn't "well, we want to destroy them but can't because they're selling too well."



But that's unfair. There are plenty of people who are fans of Inhumans. You may not be, but that doesn't mean nobody is. Marvel is pushing the Inhumans because they haven't gotten a lot of attention over the years, but have interesting stories to tell.


Why? The Inhumans are nothing like the Mutants in the comics and there's no indication the movie will have them act like a substitute for mutants. They have more in common with Black Panther than X-Men. I don't see why they would scrap an Inhumans movie if they had the X-Men. They'd probably push it back, of course, but that's because the X-Men are more popular - just like they pushed it back for Spider-Man.



It's a myth that there's a moratorium on new X-Men (it doesn't even make sense, since when has Fox borrowed from recent continuity?). People have been saying that a moratorium has existed for years despite the demonstrative proof otherwise (i.e., there have been new mutants). If we're talking about since October - it's been six issues. Do you have any source that actually claims the moratorium has only been since Secret Wars? I've only seen a suggestion that it's been in place for several years.

I've found this whole conspiracy theory surrounding the X-Men and Fantastic Four a little hard to believe.
I can see them putting more emphasis on the Inhumans since they are playing big role in the MCU, but I doubt it has anything to do with Fox and the X-Men. We've had the X-Men and the MCU running concurrently for a while now, and it seems kind weird to me that they would just suddenly decide to put less emphasis on the X-Men just to screw with Fox after all this time.
As for the FF, I thought that most people hadn't really liked any of their books since Hickman's run, so they probably just weren't selling well.

 

[Christopher]

I guess that rules out the actress from Ragnarok being Carole Danvers then.

You mean Tessa Thompson? The rumor is that she's playing Valkyrie, though it isn't confirmed.

 

[JD]

That's her, I couldn't remember her name and I didn't feel like trying to go back through the sites to find it. I know the big rumor is Valkyrie, but I saw another site mention Carole Danvers. That might have just been the writer's personal theory rather than a "rumor" though.

 

[Mr Light]

Have we heard anything about Loki being in Infinity War?

"The Avengers" said that Thanos would be coming after him if he failed to conquer the Earth. So I'd love to see Loki running to the Avengers to protect him from Thanos in IW1 and that's what starts the story and that's how our heroes learn about Thanos.

 

[bbjeg]

I have a feeling it will be discussed in Thor: Ragnarok. Maybe Thanos starts his rampage there since he owes Loki pain and they have an Infinity Stone to boot.

The next step is what will happen to Coulson's team and The Defenders post Civil War. Coulson has his index so I bet he'd be with Iron Man for registration but The Secret Warriors will probably be against it (with them being secret and all) and then you have the Defenders. Cage, Jessica Jones, and Iron Fist (guessing) feel like they'd be also against it while Daredevil may be for it. Maybe that's how he'll make his outing.