The Federation Prime Directive; Non Interfere Policy

[Steve Willis]

Keeping the Prime Directive
1. Survey said planet. Keep your presence unknown.
2. Determine the technological development. Continue using electronic countemeasures .
3. Determine if previous contact was made by other civilizations.
4. Contact the Federation for determination of status.
Do Not
1. Use planet as a shore leave destination.
2. Disable their God computer because it makes things inconvenient.
3. Disable the war making computer because they need to find out what real war is.
4. Leave books or personal equipment behind to be found out about in 100 years

 

[hux]

That sorta depends on the business...... and whether or not you want to be in the middle of it.

That doesn't mean anything. Either you weren't minding your own business or you were and if the former then you have clearly interfered and influenced my decision to cross the road or not.

Yes. The Federation. Who's spent two hundred years dealing with these kinds of situations and is probably in a much better position to judge that than you are.

I am personally happy to defer to a fictional organisation on this matter but there are countless other species out there who have even more experience than the Federation and who do not have a similar Prime Directive. Or at the very least, they don't value the black and white nature of it. If experience determines the value of a policy then the vast number of species that have been out there longer and who don't have a similar PD, trump the Federation.

And remember, I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have a PD, I'm simply saying that they have a propensity for over estimating it's worth (especially when they contradict it themselves so often) and they should acknowledge its limits and even recognise that it can (and must) be ignored on occasion. Take it down form its pedestal.

They could have just as easily gone the other way and announced both the existence of the Federation and opening of diplomatic relations in a massive press conference the very next day, consequences be damned. Again, it's not for Picard to decide how they react to this or to deliberately force their hand one way or the other.

What if the planet doesn't have one government? what if it has five (or more). The notion that the people don't need to know and we can just deal with the government people only makes this whole endeavour more sinister in my opinion. The Federation are interfering with the natural course of a society. They're putting huge decisions in the hands of a planet's small elite.

Spying doesn't violate the Prime Directive. Just GETTING CAUGHT. Therein lies the difference between "interference" and "observation."

How do we know the spying won't affect society? Your presence alone has triggered a set of events in motion. You interacted with people, you changed the course of their day. You cannot know where that will lead. You cannot know that it hasn't interfered with the natural process. But you probably should know. The idea that a society's natural development can only be negatively influenced if we do it openly but not if we do it secretly, is obviously flawed

No, because again, interference is a form of UNWANTED influence. A rational person can chose to reject outside influence and take the course of action dictated by internal forces alone. An irrational person cannot.

And again, the Malcorians did not WANT a Federation presence on their planet. They had no choice in that. And the choice being put into the hands of a tiny minority is hardly a choice anyway.

There is a clear contradiction between "we must not interfere with other cultures" and "we must travel the galaxy saying hello to everyone." The show requires the latter to exist but it should at least discuss the contradiction and point out that the PD is a flawed concept from the word go. Interference is subjective. Malcorian civilisation will now move in a direction that it WOULD NOT have done had the Federation not been interfering with them.

 

[Anwar]

And odds are, the Malcorians will be better off for it.

 

[BillJ]

1. Use planet as a shore leave destination.

Never happened in TOS. The only time I can recall it happening was in "Justice" and the Edo didn't seem to be covered.

2. Disable their God computer because it makes things inconvenient.

What about when the God computer is trying to kill you and your ship? Does that fall under "inconvenient"?

3. Disable the war making computer because they need to find out what real war is.

What about when said society is threatening ships that pass by, having already destroyed one ship and threatening to destroy yours to satisfy their war making computer?

 

[Steve Willis]

Ahh, but the Edo were. Picard's quandary was whether to use his more powerful technology and vessel to rescue Wesley, or to do nothing and not interfere.
That is why the PD is the most difficult order to uphold. Is it OK to destroy a civilization to save your ship?

 

[BillJ]

Is it OK to destroy a civilization to save your ship?

But it just isn't one ship in a vacuum. At both Eminiar VII ("A Taste of Armageddon") and Beta IIIA ("The Return of the Archons"), the Federation/Earth have already lost ships to these supercomputers. In "...Armageddon", they talk about thousands of lives having been lost in the area...

FOX: Captain, in the past twenty years, thousands of lives have been lost in this quadrant.

Is it okay for these supercomputers to destroy any ship that happens to wonder into their territory? Seems to me that they are openly declaring a state of war against outsiders.

In "The Apple", Kirk actually attempts to leave when things go sour on Gamma Trianguli VI. Only to be blocked by Vaal. What good does sacrificing himself and his ship do when he knows that the Federation will simply send more ships which will likely lead to the loss of more lives?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You really don't know that? For all you know, the outbreak of Zika virus* could somehow be related to their arrival. Just because they are quiet doesn't mean they aren't causing changes.

*Just an example, I don't believe the Zika virus is caused by aliens.

Take Data's crash landing on Barkon IV in "Thine Own Self". His actions were causing illness, neither he nor the inhabitants were aware of at first.

This is a fair point, and would definitely count as "interference" from an outside source. Special care should be taken to avoid those kinds of situations, which IMO Starfleet doesn't do a good enough job of, at least as far as we've seen.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why would the government have the power to decide who the population can and can't talk to?

Is that a rhetorical question or do you really need me to explain that to you?

And why would Starfleet observe such a attempted restriction?

Short answer: Because ignoring it would be illegal

Long answer: Starfleet is a representative of the United Federation of Planets and as such is bound by the dictates of interstellar law. If a recognized government tells them to stay out of their jurisdiction, they have to follow those instructions. If a private citizen tells them to stay off his property, they have to follow those instructions too. If they try to arrest someone for a crime, they have to obey due process and all applicable rights and restrictions.

In that sense, the Prime Directive covers those situations that aren't explicitly covered in the normal restrictions in interstellar law, and as far as Starfleet is concerned it is an additional legal restriction.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

That doesn't mean anything. Either you weren't minding your own business or you were and if the former then you have clearly interfered and influenced my decision to cross the road or not.

Really? "Minding my own business" involves beating my best friend to death with a shovel. You chose to cross the street so as not to get caught in the middle; no interference on my part. You also didn't get involved in the shovel-swinging melee; no interference on your part.

I am personally happy to defer to a fictional organisation on this matter but there are countless other species out there who have even more experience than the Federation...

Name one so we can compare them.

What if the planet doesn't have one government? what if it has five (or more).

Then IF they make contact, they don't make contact with any one government and reach out to all of them at once (e.g. "A Piece of the Action"). It's actually very unusual for the Federation to open relations with one government and not with another (The Kes and the Pritt) for obvious reasons it's something they try to avoid doing unless the circumstances are very unusual. AFAIK, Kespritt only got a pass because the entire planet was unified EXCEPT for one loan holdout that wanted to stay independent, and the Enterprise's mission was to determine to what extent that dissident government posed a problem or not. Turned out it did, a rather HUGE one, and the Federation decided not to deal with them anymore.

The notion that the people don't need to know and we can just deal with the government people only makes this whole endeavour more sinister in my opinion. The Federation are interfering with the natural course of a society. They're putting huge decisions in the hands of a planet's small elite.

That's just it: most of those decisions ARE ALREADY made be the planet's small elite. Even in the Federation, that's just as true. Whether it's because they're a democratic body that appointed its leaders or an absolutist monarchy that follows them for no good reason. These are the people whose decisions are most likely to be respected by the majority if not the entire population. Those elites are the closest thing the society has to a representative of its own social consensus; if you're going to have official relations with anyone, it'll be then.

Significantly, Starfleet can't act as a representative of that consensus without also acting as the GOVERNMENT of that society. Bypassing the representatives of that society and communicating with the locals against the wishes of their representatives -- otherwise known as "sewing sedition" -- would be a fairly belligerent act.

You interacted with people, you changed the course of their day. You cannot know where that will lead...

Nor should you care. Again, the Prime Directive doesn't say you can't interact with people or affect them in any way shape or form. It only says you can't derail the natural evolution of their society. They make no assumptions about what that "natural evolution" might be, or SHOULD be, or even COULD be. Only that people should be free to make their own choices in their lives and that Starfleet should not make those decisions on their behalf.

Nor does the Prime Directive actually claim that primitive societies should be totally free from outside influence. It doesn't imply that AT ALL. There is probably an entire corps of Federation anthropologists who are specialized at visiting primitive planets and introducing new concepts to them (hygiene, democracy, fairness, etc) that might help them choose more productive paths for themselves.

And again, the Malcorians did not WANT a Federation presence on their planet. They had no choice in that.

Of course they did. Picard gave them a choice and they said "Nope." So now there is no Federation presence on their planet.

Interference is subjective.

No, interference is not subjective. Interference is direct action that deprives a society (either collectively or through its representatives) of the opportunity to make a rational choice about the course of their own development. Nothing in the Prime Directive implies that alien civilizations have the right to be left alone; rather, they have the right to choose for themselves whether or not they want to be left alone. Starfleet can and does advise different civilizations on that subject, but the Prime Directive only constrains them to respect whatever decision is ultimately made.

Which is why the Federation (grudgingly) accepted Bajor's decision NOT to join the Federation just before the war, and also why they were so pissed off at Ben Sisko for telling them not to sign up.

 

[dswynne1]

Reading these comments, I am surprised by reasons why the PD is "stupid". I am also stuck at the lack of context there is when looking at past episodes. For one, there is nearly a 100 year gap between TOS and TNG. For another, GR must have been mindful about the neo-colonial overtones in TOS, which is probably why he wanted to stress the PD as a rule rather than as a guideline. Personally, I think that having a PD, as flawed as it is, for one simple reason: the history of European colonialism. I am sure that the indigenous peoples at the time "benefited" from this phenomenon.

 

[Steve Willis]

Regardless if your ship is in danger, you cannot change a civilization to save it. Look at Picard in First Contact, he was going to abandon the Enterprise, but the crew were going to be in isolation on Earth. That is another application of the PD.
The only law that supersedes the PD is the Omega Directive.

 

[BillJ]

Regardless if your ship is in danger, you cannot change a civilization to save it. Look at Picard in First Contact, he was going to abandon the Enterprise, but the crew were going to be in isolation on Earth. That is another application of the PD.
The only law that supersedes the PD is the Omega Directive.

As we saw in "Regeneration", the destruction of the Enterprise wouldn't have guaranteed part of it wouldn't have rained down on Earth. Also, Picard orders them to try and stay out of history's way, something he knew was likely impossible.

According to Voyager, there are 47 subsections of the Prime Directive. So, likely, there is much in the way of wiggle room for a CO put into a PD situation.

 

[hux]

Really? "Minding my own business" involves beating my best friend to death with a shovel. You chose to cross the street so as not to get caught in the middle; no interference on my part. You also didn't get involved in the shovel-swinging melee; no interference on your part.

That doesn't work as an analogy for the Malcorians though. If you're throwing shovels in space... fine my choice to move away, but if you're throwing them on my planet then no, I don't have a choice. I have to act in a way that I wouldn't normally have had to do.

Name one so we can compare them.

Pretty much every species we see, doesn't claim to have a PD so you could argue that every species we've see that hasn't mentioned it, doesn't have one. So take your pick. How about the Qomar from Virtuosa (more advanced than the Federation).

Nor should you care. Again, the Prime Directive doesn't say you can't interact with people or affect them in any way shape or form. It only says you can't derail the natural evolution of their society. They make no assumptions about what that "natural evolution" might be, or SHOULD be, or even COULD be. Only that people should be free to make their own choices in their lives and that Starfleet should not make those decisions on their behalf.

Nor does the Prime Directive actually claim that primitive societies should be totally free from outside influence. It doesn't imply that AT ALL. There is probably an entire corps of Federation anthropologists who are specialized at visiting primitive planets and introducing new concepts to them (hygiene, democracy, fairness, etc) that might help them choose more productive paths for themselves.

And all of that demonstrates that the PD is flawed. It means whatever you want it to mean whenever you want it to mean it. They have absolutely no problems changing the course of a planets natural development but justify it (like you) by claiming that they're ultimately letting people choose so it's fine that our presence has radically altered the direction of your society. Then when they come across a planet at war, the PD suddenly changes into a hard and fast rule about not influencing that society. If it was simply a matter of giving them the choice then why not beam down and tell both sides... Hey, we can help you achieve peace and prosperity if you stop fighting? It's entirely your choice. Again, it's because the PD means whatever they want it to mean when it suits them. If it's simply about giving them a choice then why does Picard say...

Picard: What about war. If generations of conflict is killing millions, do we interfere?

Well by your logic, as long as they give the two sides a choice in ending the conflict... then the PD isn't violated. Yet that option isn't used because AGAIN the truth is, the PD is what they want it to be when it suits them.

Of course they did. Picard gave them a choice and they said "Nope." So now there is no Federation presence on their planet.

Picard gave them that choice AFTER they had already been to the planet and interacted with their people and society. What choice did the Malcorians have in that?

No, interference is not subjective. Interference is direct action that deprives a society (either collectively or through its representatives) of the opportunity to make a rational choice about the course of their own development.

Then why doesn't the Federation pop down to war-torn planets and give them the choice of peace?

Why don' they pop down to planets with a terrible disease and say... would you like the cure... it's your choice?

On paper, interference isn't subjective but how they define interference demonstrably is... subjective.

Nothing in the Prime Directive implies that alien civilizations have the right to be left alone; rather, they have the right to choose for themselves whether or not they want to be left alone.

Then once again... if it's all about choice then why not offer them the choice of stopping their wars? curing their diseases, stopping their environmental catastrophes?

Clearly interference is not just about their choice. It's about the Federation's mood on that particular day.

 

[Anwar]

Contact with extraterrestrials was inevitable by that point, the Feds just realized that in that case it was better to try and nip any potential problems in the bud.

 

[BillJ]

Contact with extraterrestrials was inevitable by that point, the Feds just realized that in that case it was better to try and nip any potential problems in the bud.

But facing potential problems is how a society grows. Would the Federation even exist without Earth having gone through World War III.

 

[Steve Willis]

You cannot be a truly responsible interstellar civilization and say " If you behave and quit fighting we will cure your problems" If you do that, the minute you say no more help, you now have a space capable race of spoiled brats. they may turn out like the Borg or on the less serious side, the Packleds, "We look for things to make us go."

 

[PhaserLightShow]

But facing potential problems is how a society grows. Would the Federation even exist without Earth having gone through World War III.

How did Earth survive the nukes with electronics? Nukes make EMPs.
"I do not no what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but I know that World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein (incorrect in ST world; World War IV would be fought with Phasers and Photon Torpedoes and Disruptors and Plasma Torpedoes in Star Trek)

@PhaserLightShow

 

[Steve Willis]

I post this question and answer honestly. I don't think we are alone in our neck of the woods. Is there a real interstellar PD? We see them, but no one stops to say we are here. Several Star Trek episodes and novels cover various reasons for UFOs. If there is a real PD, why is there so much visible evidence that others exist. Wouldn't they try to hide better?

 

[BillJ]

How did Earth survive the nukes with electronics? Nukes make EMPs.

Not exactly sure how it all works, but I would think electronics built after the EMP's wouldn't be affected by them.

 

[SWHouston]

EMP's can be shunted by enclosure grounding, possibly a little hard to find in space.