Does anyone like TMP uniforms?

[Pauln6]

It kind of does, though. Sulu and DiFalco were strictly bridge officers, while it could be argued that Ilia was a command track officer (she might have otherwise being wearing beige like DiFalco). The gray "command" uniforms really seem more like a general officer's uniform with the others being more division-specific, IMO. Rand's uniform could just be chalked up to her belonging to a division that wasn't listed in those fact files notes.

But in the Rec Deck scene there were many officers in beige and grey plus on the bridge you had crew in white overalls. The Rhaandarite was grey security but Chekov was beige security. I'd be happy if they divided them logically so officers generally wear grey except on the bridge, where internal security officers are in grey while tactical officers are in beige; helm is in beige while navigation is in grey; then for general crew, ship's engineering, security, and medical are white; support engineering is yellow (or maybe this colour is reserved for petty officers and above) ; general Ops are brown but then DiFalco rocks up and mucks that logic up. However, DiFalco is a non-com. While this could be a reason for her wearing a different colour to Ilia, Rand after all wears a yellow uniform, it doesn't then make sense for that to be the same colour as Sulu and Uhura. The logic isn't logical on screen.

I'm off to watch TMP on Channel 5 +1 now! Laterzzz

 

[C.E. Evans]

But in the Rec Deck scene there were many officers in beige and grey plus on the bridge you had crew in white overalls. The Rhaandarite was grey security but Chekov was beige security. I'd be happy if they divided them logically so officers generally wear grey except on the bridge, where internal security officers are in grey while tactical officers are in beige; helm is in beige while navigation is in grey; then for general crew, ship's engineering, security, and medical are white; support engineering is yellow (or maybe this colour is reserved for petty officers and above) ; general Ops are brown but then DiFalco rocks up and mucks that logic up. However, DiFalco is a non-com. While this could be a reason for her wearing a different colour to Ilia, Rand after all wears a yellow uniform, it doesn't then make sense for that to be the same colour as Sulu and Uhura. The logic isn't logical on screen.

Maybe it doesn't seem logical to you, but it really isn't implausible that it's just a case of different people belonging to different departments.

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe it doesn't seem logical to you, but it really isn't implausible that it's just a case of different people belonging to different departments.

Not completely implausible, no, but the 'official' explanation just doesn't tie up with what we see on screen in any obvious way, that's all.

I'm not really sure what all the Ops personnel do on a ship the size of the Enterprise: I can think of one helm officer, comms offiicer, and navigation officer per shift, shuttle pilots (officers), cargo and provisioning crew, plus manning the comms bay for three shifts. I suppose that means the majority of Ops personnel would be general maintenance and comms technicians. Maybe DiFalco was on duty in the shuttle bay or comms bay as part of the alert status of the ship, which involves being in a beige uniform...?

Similarly, maybe the engineers in red/orange suits are impulse engineers or weapons engineers just passing through main engineering.

As an aside, the little coloured armbands with rank stripes on the field jackets are cute and could be part of the standard uniform but I can't see any reason to depart from the new department colours. Not sure why captain only has two stripes and Uhura only has one stripe on her epaulet though. Looks like another inconsistency. Not as bad as Rand's fluctuating rank throughout the movies, I suppose.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Not completely implausible, no, but the 'official' explanation just doesn't tie up with what we see on screen in any obvious way, that's all.

I have to disagree. I kind of figured it out as a kid that the gray uniforms were some kind of general services uniforms and that there were new colors for other departments (as well as new protective outfits for engineering and security--and white has been associated with hospital doctors for decades). Didn't seem that hard to me, especially given that we saw different classes of uniforms throughout the movie.

 

[Pauln6]

I have to disagree. I kind of figured it out as a kid that the gray uniforms were some kind of general services uniforms and that there were new colors for other departments (as well as new protective outfits for engineering and security--and white has been associated with hospital doctors for decades). Didn't seem that hard to me, especially given that we saw different classes of uniforms throughout the movie.

I agree that superficially that is correct. I don't think anybody we see in a grey uniform isn't an officer. I might be a bit pickier because I studied the Rec Deck images more closely to use in my photo comic. There are white jumpsuit uniforms for every department, some of whom are petty officers, and at least one of whom is a security ensign. Beige uniforms cover every rank. Yellow jumpsuits seem to be limited to enlisted crew, Rand being the only CPO. Dark brown uniforms are enlisted and PO. The light beige t-shirts are worn by every rank. It is a bit more random than you think.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I agree that superficially that is correct.

It's not superficial correct, it's just the way it really was. Unlike previous and subsequent uniforms, this one had a fairly large number of departments and divisions, as well as multiple variant uniforms for them. One can only really look at them that way and they make sense that way. Trying to figure out why this person is wearing this uniform instead of that uniform is like trying to figure out why a person in in this department instead of that department. One could argue that in order to simplify things, the next uniform design had fewer divisions and departments.

 

[Pauln6]

It's not superficial correct, it's just the way it really was. Unlike previous and subsequent uniforms, this one had a fairly large number of departments and divisions, as well as multiple variant uniforms for them. One can only really look at them that way and they make sense that way. Trying to figure out why this person is wearing this uniform instead of that uniform is like trying to figure out why a person in in this department instead of that department. One could argue that in order to simplify things, the next uniform design had fewer divisions and departments.

I do get what you are saying. Roddenberry expressly wanted the uniforms to appear less military and that was partly why they had so many variants. Some of the actors wear three or four different uniforms throughout the movie, probably due to brown stainage after a V'Ger attack. So the logic is that they expressly wanted it to appear that it was the crew's choice as to which variant they got to wear cos that's just how Starfleet rolls.

My point is that this is one of the things I don't like about the uniforms. I'd prefer it if they more consistently related to rank, division, department, and duty station. So I think you are saying that there is a certain amount of logic to the uniform colours, whereas I'm saying, for my tastes, there isn't enough logic.

It's also worth pointing out that the colour scheme in TWoK onwards also makes no logical sense and that's one of the things that annoys me about those uniforms.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's also worth pointing out that the colour scheme in TWoK onwards also makes no logical sense and that's one of the things that annoys me about those uniforms.

That department color scheme made sense. White for command, gray for sciences, green for medical, gold for operations, red for cadet. Some of Kirk's ground troops in Star Trek V had dark blue shoulder tabs, so they might have been special forces or something. An oddity might have been Chekov wearing gray unless navigation fell under sciences at the time (and ditto for communications, which would explain Uhura's uniform).

Scotty seemed to wear whatever he wanted, though...

 

[Pauln6]

That department color scheme made sense. White for command, gray for sciences, green for medical, gold for operations, red for cadet. Some of Kirk's ground troops in Star Trek V had dark blue shoulder tabs, so they might have been special forces or something. An oddity might have been Chekov wearing gray unless navigation fell under sciences at the time (and ditto for communications, which would explain Uhura's uniform).

Scotty seemed to wear whatever he wanted, though...

Ha ha - I think maybe we are talking at cross purposes. Just because we can work out what the department colour means doesn't mean the new divisions make any kind of logical sense ;-P In one breath that the colours make sense but then say grey is for sciences, AND comms (previously under ops, then services, then ops again), AND navigation (previously Ops), and then gold for helm (previously Ops) AND engineering.

I suppose in their defence, lumping security, engineering, and admin in the same department in TOS was rather arbitrary too.

 

[Longinus]

I liked them. They looked neat and futuristic (apart McCoy's 70's collar.) I also liked that there was variation, though as pointed out, there might have been too much of it. Brown and beige uniforms didn't look terribly good, but grey and white ones were excellent. I also liked the small details like the department coloured strips on the shoulder (though I'd have preferred the original department colours for those), although oddly enough not all variants had them.

Overall, I think I prefer TMP uniforms over the TWoK ones, those always felt way too stiff and formal to me. Fine as dress uniforms but not for everyday use.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Ha ha - I think maybe we are talking at cross purposes. Just because we can work out what the department colour means doesn't mean the new divisions make any kind of logical sense ;-P In one breath that the colours make sense but then say grey is for sciences, AND comms (previously under ops, then services, then ops again), AND navigation (previously Ops), and then gold for helm (previously Ops) AND engineering.

It makes perfect sense if you think that things change over time and not everything stays organized the same way over the years and decades. Even the ENT department colors aren't exactly set up the same way as the TOS uniforms (it has communications under sciences).

 

[STEPhon IT]

I was thinking about the colors in this way. The designs were very faithful to Star Trek. All it really needed was the colors.

 

[Galileo7]

I was thinking about the colors in this way. The designs were very faithful to Star Trek. All it really needed was the colors.

Agree.
Yes, these colors on TMP uniforms would have looked great and better tied the continuity of TOS to TMP production design.

 

[J.T.B.]

Yes, I bought those fact files! But there is no obvious logic why Ilia wears grey and Sulu or DiFalco wears beige. Why Rand wears yellow while other engineering technicians and officers wear beige, grey, or white. The presented logic does not stack up on screen.

Agreed. The word from TMoSTTMP was:

Uniforms worn on the bridge are of three general classifications. All command officers generally wear the blue-gray uniforms (Kirk, Spock, Decker, Scotty, McCoy); other bridge officers like Sulu and Chekov wear beige; crew personnel who are usually never on the bridge except for emergencies wear brown.​

It's hard to imagine a situation that would include a navigation lieutenant and a security ensign as "command officers" but exclude two bridge lieutenant commanders, one of whom had commanded Enterprise in battle and would go on to be captain of his own ship.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's hard to imagine a situation that would include a navigation lieutenant and a security ensign as "command officers" but exclude two bridge lieutenant commanders, one of whom had commanded Enterprise in battle and would go on to be captain of his own ship.

A simple case of a different uniform with different division colors. Ilia may have been a navigator, but she was probably a command track (or basic deck) officer first and foremost, with duties that may not have been limited to the bridge or any section of the ship. In comparison, Sulu and Uhura were considered bridge officers more than anything else. It's just the way things were divided back then with a lot more specialization.

 

[Pauln6]

Even the ENT department colors aren't exactly set up the same way as the TOS uniforms (it has communications under sciences).

Ooh, I had not noticed that. I wonder if that is because she was a linguist rather than a command officer? I suppose I don't like changes unless there is a sensible reason.

A simple case of a different uniform with different division colors. Ilia may have been a navigator, but she was probably a command track (or basic deck) officer first and foremost, with duties that may not have been limited to the bridge or any section of the ship. In comparison, Sulu and Uhura were considered bridge officers more than anything else. It's just the way things were divided back then with a lot more specialization.

The problem with that logic is that Sulu has been a command officer through and through since he transferred from physics about 8 years ago. He is also now a very senior officer, too senior to be 'just' a helmsman bridge officer. I like to think he was chief operations officer who was just manning the helm during this crisis. I do understand where you are going with your argument but it just doesn't quite stack up for me that Sulu wears beige and a security ensign wears grey.

Agree.
Yes, these colors on TMP uniforms would have looked great and better tied the continuity of TOS to TMP production design.

I tried some gimping but I couldn't get the TOS colours to look any good :-(

 

[urbandefault]

Nah. The TMP uniforms were fine, but there were too many variants. There's no need to have so many different variations in play at any one time. I think they did it just because they could.

The Decker Unit just made the jumpsuit creepy.

 

[Smellmet]

Kirks admiral uniform in TMP was quality - the rest, not so good. I prefer it over the red II-VII uniforms any day.

 

[C.E. Evans]

↑
Even the ENT department colors aren't exactly set up the same way as the TOS uniforms (it has communications under sciences).

Ooh, I had not noticed that. I wonder if that is because she was a linguist rather than a command officer? I suppose I don't like changes unless there is a sensible reason.

Most changes are done simply because someone in authority decides it's just time for a change. It's no different from how uniform department colors were realigned between TOS and TNG or between TOS and TMP.

A simple case of a different uniform with different division colors. Ilia may have been a navigator, but she was probably a command track (or basic deck) officer first and foremost, with duties that may not have been limited to the bridge or any section of the ship. In comparison, Sulu and Uhura were considered bridge officers more than anything else. It's just the way things were divided back then with a lot more specialization.

The problem with that logic is that Sulu has been a command officer through and through since he transferred from physics about 8 years ago. He is also now a very senior officer, too senior to be 'just' a helmsman bridge officer. I like to think he was chief operations officer who was just manning the helm during this crisis. I do understand where you are going with your argument but it just doesn't quite stack up for me that Sulu wears beige and a security ensign wears grey.

It's quite logical and stacks up easily if you take into account that things changed between TOS and TMP as far as uniforms and departments were concerned. Sulu being designated a bridge officer and wearing a corresponding uniform doesn't take away anything from his rank or his authority no more than it did for Data in TNG, who wore an operations uniform rather a command uniform, and yet was the Enterprise's second officer.

 

[Pauln6]

It's quite logical and stacks up easily if you take into account that things changed between TOS and TMP as far as uniforms and departments were concerned. Sulu being designated a bridge officer and wearing a corresponding uniform doesn't take away anything from his rank or his authority no more than it did for Data in TNG, who wore an operations uniform rather a command uniform, and yet was the Enterprise's second officer.

Ilia was also an emergency replacement. It's possible she was wearing grey from her previous assignment. We still have a security ensign in grey though.

TNG monkeyed with the system for convenience really, restoring the TOS divisions - it was only the colours that swapped. Even then there is precedent for first and second officers wearing department colours rather than command (Spock in TOS wore science blue, Scotty engineering red, Chekov wore science grey, and Data wore services yellow). The role of comms officer was given to the tactical officer in TNG, which is odd as you'd think they'd be quite busy dealing with both internal security AND tactical - it was just a way to control the dialogue I think, and the Comms bay does most of the hard graft. Still, it's a bit insulting to Uhura!

The TMP divisions remain my favourite though, with three ops stations (helm, navigation, comms), the science station, two security stations (tactical, internal security), and five engineering stations (engineering (beige), enviromental (white), damage control (white), bridge transporter (white), and tractor beam (white)). Not a single brown uniform on the bridge and the guy in beige has no rank stripes, so apparently not an officer? I would have thought he'd be at least an ensign. I still find it confusing!