Why do people love Wrath of Khan so much?

[BillJ]

One noteworthy change made for this movie (and retained thereafter) was that now you could move and even converse while in the act of beaming up. This speaks to the attention given to improved pacing versus TMP: Why else introduce such a change?

You could move during TMP. I'm pretty sure they could move during TOS as well.

 

[Gov Kodos]

You could move during TMP. I'm pretty sure they could move during TOS as well.

I don't remember them moving during transport in TOS but it didn't really matter to me in TWOK. One could put the the speaking down to a safety feature where the system is double checking the health of the arrival before shut down so a cock up like TMP doesn't happen? The things have always worked at the pace of plot, anyway. Suddenly glitching in Doomsday Machine, coughing up duplicates in Enemy Within, so they can talk in TWOK, no big deal.

 

[Green Shirt]

and either Chekov is 100% incompetent; or late 23rd century Starship sensors LOST functionality as how can you not on approach to the Ceti Alpha system notice:

1 - There's a Planet missing and an extra debris field in the system that didn't exist the last time you were there
2 - The orbital path of one (perhaps more) of the Planets in the system have shifted
^^^^
And that just in the first few minutes of the film

In TSFS, you will notice that Kirk orders a pre approach scan of an Earth orbiting Starfleet installation for cripe sakes. That's either SOP, or a reaction to Chekov's massive screw up. I always thought the look on Chekov's face showed his reluctance to sitting in Spock's chair. But its likely a reaction to how his incompetence caused all that happened since Ceti Alpha.

 

[J.T.B.]

You could move during TMP. I'm pretty sure they could move during TOS as well.

Nah, the TOS effect was made with a mask from a single frame.

 

[Green Shirt]

^ They moved in reaction to Losira killing the transporter technician in That Which Survives.

 

[jaime]

You could move during TMP. I'm pretty sure they could move during TOS as well.

The way the effect is done in Tos precludes movement, I think tng also dropped movement. The only transporter scene with movement in TMP is when something is wrong with the transporters.
Not an end of the world scenario for Canon geeks and ex astra Scientia type folk, but it makes a mockery of annular confinement beams and whatnot, and leads to the rather silly moment where winona falls out of a beam.

 

[J.T.B.]

^ They moved in reaction to Losira killing the transporter technician in That Which Survives.

Well, yeah, IIRC they superimposed the glitter effect over the live action in a limited section as if the beam was "warming up," but the area was small enough that the actor could move and the effect could stay in place. But when it filled out to the whole body, it was freeze-framed.

 

[BillJ]

^ They moved in reaction to Losira killing the transporter technician in That Which Survives.

Thanks. Knew it had happened but couldn't place the episode off the top of my head.

 

[Green Shirt]

Well, yeah, IIRC they superimposed the glitter effect over the live action in a limited section as if the beam was "warming up," but the area was small enough that the actor could move and the effect could stay in place. But when it filled out to the whole body, it was freeze-framed.

True enough for optical effects purposes, but movement occurred (satisfying BillJ's contention a few posts up.)

 

[Jedi_Master]

One word: KHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[J.T.B.]

True enough for optical effects purposes, but movement occurred (satisfying BillJ's contention a few posts up.)

No argument, it was a good call.

 

[Green Shirt]

^I remember that scene being a big deal even as a kid 40+ years ago -- they can move in the beam? I guess it was possible since maybe Losira made the chief hit the "pause" button by accident as he fell.

 

[eyeresist]

Not an end of the world scenario for Canon geeks and ex astra Scientia type folk, but it makes a mockery of annular confinement beams and whatnot, and leads to the rather silly moment where winona falls out of a beam.

OTOH, if people being beamed are absolutely static, that means their heart and brain function has stopped, which might be problematic.

 

[fireproof78]

OTOH, if people being beamed are absolutely static, that means their heart and brain function has stopped, which might be problematic.

This lends credence to the concept of the transporter killing the person and then recreating a perfect clone

 

[Phoenix219]

WOK has that magical "it" factor. It's inexplicable and works just because... Under any kind of scrutiny, it really stands-out as a haphazardly made film. There are huge plot holes and gaffes. But I think it was almost saved by the low budget and lack of resources (and little amount of time he had to rewrite the script). Meyer had to keep things moving at a snappy pace out of necessity. This doesn't leave a lot of time for things to fester, so the audience can then stay in the moment--and each moment is a lot of fun on its own.

Take the prefix code for example. Think about it for two seconds, and one finds it's a pretty ridiculous concept and total travesty of a DXM. Yet all that gets lost in the drama of the moment. Same goes with Genesis's creation. How many people realized that it totally contradicted the premise stated earlier in the film on their first viewing? I'm sure there were a few, but most people were probably still teary-eyed and reeling form the shock of the previous five minutes and couldn't be bothered.

Also, a lot of the dialog is rather trite, but Shatner and Montalban's performances transcend it. In fact, I think either performance makes for a great microcosm. By any critical standards, neither is very good on the whole. (Each has a great moment or two.) They're both over-cooked ham. Yet there's just something about them that's fucking awesome and memorable.

Take Montalban's reading of "I'll chase him..." for example. Meyer just took a famous line of classic literature, altered it a little to fit the scope of the film, and pasted it in. It's a cheap shortcut--the kind of thing one does on a paper his freshman year. And taken out of context, Monty's reading is way over the top. Yet it just works.

Compare that to Chang. Meyer did the same thing. And, by any other standard, I think most people would agree Plummer is the better actor. (The guy is one of the best ever.) But all of those lines of Shakespeare just feel dead, and the gag quickly gets annoying. Because that it factor isn't there.

Are those really plot holes? Could Kirk, as an Admiral doing *inspections* on Star Fleet vehicles, honestly know some super secret prefix code info, built in as a backdoor? Do we know there wasn't a rocky planetoid in the nebula?

 

[maneth]

TWOK is a pretty decent revenge story. However, Khan is such an arrogant bastard in Space Seed that I can barely bear to watch it.

 

[BillJ]

...honestly know some super secret prefix code info, built in as a backdoor?

I would imagine Kirk would know of the existence of the prefix code, being a former starship commander. He wouldn't know individual prefix codes, which is why he ordered Spock and Saavik to pull up Reliant's command charts.

 

[Spock's Barber]

I was so bored with TMP that they could have made a ST sequel showing 2 hours of Oprah Winfrey doing yoga and I would have liked it. Many years later I don't like TWOK as much, mainly because Khan looks like an escapee from a senior citizen home when compared to his teenage gang members.

 

[Tom Paris' Cellmate]

It's not just my favorite Star Trek movie but one of my top 3 favorite movies of all time. I'm not entirely sure why, it's not the most edge-of-your-seat movie or anything it's just really cool. But that's Star Trek in a nutshell, for me at least. WoK is a little uneven, parts of it are a little dull but when it gets going it really gets going. The first encounter with the Reliant and Spock saving the ship at the end are some of the best scenes of the franchise in my opinion. It's more dark/serious than most of the films which I think is a plus for a lot of people. I personally enjoy the humor in Star Trek so I kind of love it in spite of the dark tone not because of it. It doesn't really encapsulate all the things I love about Star Trek, so it's not really what I thrown on when "I'm in the mood for some Trek", yet it's my favorite of the bunch for some reason. I guess it just has a great story, a great villain and Spock saving the ship in a Crowning Moment of Awesome. The ending really sticks with people more than any other. It's bittersweet instead of a happy ending, it's not too bitter though because you know Spock will be back. But even knowing he'll be back in the next movie it's a very powerful death. Only two movies have ever made me cry. Rocky IV when Apollo was killed in the ring and WoK. And when I saw WoK I'd already seen IV, V and VI, so it wasn't like I actually thought he was really gone forever. But it still got to me. Too bad Rocky V wasn't "The Search For Creed", would have been better than watching Tommy Gunn try to act.

 

[Captain April]

A lot of good points have been made, both for and against TWOK. However, I love TWOK for many reasons. Yes, TMP was perhaps too erudite for general audiences, but for Trek fans I think we could feel how stiff the cast was towards one another. Sort of like putting on a suit that used to fit you, but now is too tight in all the wrong places.

By the time TWOK filmed the cobwebs had fallen away and they felt more comfortable playing the parts they left behind. You could see the old interplay between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and everyone knew their roles and how to play them. I think this is because TWOK was primarily about the crew of Enterprise.

Add this to the angry and bitter performance of Montalblan and you get a wonderfully Homeric piece of drama that is more than the sum of its parts. It's the little things in TWOK that contribute to its total greatness that makes me love it all the more in light of recent efforts.