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Poll Would You Let a Holographic Hitler Save Your Life?

Would You Let a Holographic Hitler save Your Life?

  • Yup... It's a hologram for Christ's sake.

    Votes: 16 88.9%
  • Nope.. I'm super principled and stuff.

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Total voters
    18

hux

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You're about to die. There's a hologram of Hitler in the system that can save you (don't ask me why... he just can, OK). Would you let him? Would you have moral objections strong enough to refuse his help?

B'Elanna wouldn't allow Crell Moset to operate on her or even allow the doctor to use knowledge acquired from him. Tabor was even willing to resign his commission over it (and he wasn't even being operated on). Janeway ultimately dismissed B'Elanna's concerns and gave the Doc the go-ahead.

What I find odd is B'Elanna's complete change of heart regarding holograms. Throughout the show, she regularly dismissed notions of them being anything more than tools, including in Latent Image...

JANEWAY: We gave him a soul, B'Elanna. Do we have the right to take it away now?
TORRES: We gave him personality subroutines. I'd hardly call that a soul.

Suddenly, she now sees them as more than just photons and forcefields?

Would you allow it?
 
Depends, did this holographic Hitler gain his knowledge through intentionally infecting people at Auschwitz, and will making use of this information in any way endorse and legitimize this form of medical research?
 
Yes... and he also killed some kittens and pushed an old lady over.
 
There is a fanfic about this and the question is asked "When does the the suffering stop?' meaning if B'Elanna had died the suffering would have continued because Tom and her friends would have suffered from her loss and the crew would have suffered without their Chief Engineer which might have affected them getting home.

Doesn't answer the question but it did give me something to think about.
 
Since it's not the real Hitler, who cares? It's not even his consciousness. A hologram could look like anyone and anything. This is no more the real Hitler than the one from "Nothing Human" was the real Moset. There was absolutely no relation. You might as well ask "Would you let someone wearing a Hitler Halloween costume save your life?"

As for using the knowledge: Whatever the Nazis did, has already been done. Those were disgusting crimes the Nazis committed, and everybody knows it, but refusing to use the knowledge gained therein will not cause it to un-happen. Letting people die because of such refusal will, similarly, also not cause the Nazis to never have existed.

That knowledge is out there. It's not going anywhere. So is there any reason why it shouldn't be turned to good, rather than evil? If so, I'd like to hear it.
 
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the question remains> is he capable of such acts of "compassion"? considering I'm white and not a jew Hitler probably would happily lend me a hand, however i am brunette with brown eyes he might mistake me for Anne Frank.
 
Refusing to use the knowledge gained won't cause it to un-happen, but in some cases it could encourage other medical researchers to do similar things. In the case of Nazis probably enough time has passed that this is not the case, but closer to the actual time frame it may have been. Experimenting on patients without their consent didn't just happen in Nazi Germany, they did it to gypsys in the US. Creating a paradigm of 'ends justify the means' encourages other doctors to rationalize horrible acts in the cause of medical advancement. If a doctor kidnaps 100 people off the street, infects people with a disease then uses them to invent a new medicine, and then they send him to jail but everybody starts using the medicine, the next researcher will feel like a self sacrificing hero when he does the same thing.

The Hitler comparison is a weak analogy, since that was long enough in the past that allowing the holographic Hitler to save your life will not encourage future crimes.
 
Since it's not the real Hitler, who cares? It's not even his consciousness. A hologram could look like anyone and anything. This is no more the real Hitler than the one from "Nothing Human" was the real Moset. There was absolutely no relation. You might as well ask "Would you let someone wearing a Hitler Halloween costume save your life?"

As for using the knowledge: Whatever the Nazis did, has already been done. Those were disgusting crimes the Nazis committed, and everybody knows it, but refusing to use the knowledge gained therein will not cause it to un-happen. Letting people die because of such refusal will, similarly, also not cause the Nazis to never have existed.

That knowledge is out there. It's not going anywhere. So is there any reason why it shouldn't be turned to good, rather than evil? If so, I'd like to hear it.

It's late and I'm tired, so maybe I'm rather off base from what you're suggesting, which I do agree with, but might it be extrapolated to current real world parallels such as nuclear disarmament? You arrive at a framework all enabled parties agree to (of course never going to happen), but the knowledge is never going to be erased or unlearned. If such a scenario could be made with effective, verifiable safeguards, well perhaps it might be effective for a time at least, but the possibility of it successfully being abrogated will always remain. NSA surveillance? The spectre of privacy degradation (to the extent that privacy is even widely extant any longer) is unquestionably a vital issue, one that is integral in this country's founding documents and burnished over time. The question of the incursions going beyond the realms of metadata aside, the ability to collect the information is never going to disappear as if it never was known, indeed, it will only be greatly enhanced as time (not far off either) proceeds. Statutes and regulations can be agreed upon now to legally limit what is permissible, but putting aside the harmful consequences that such constriction of information gathering might portend given such a wide range of bad actors being around every corner, such safeguards, as they are considered, will inevitably be worked around or ignored in the present, and their effective agency will likely be superceded by those inevitable developments soon to come, that might very well render the substance, if not the spirit, of these protections null and void.

Bottom line: This is the world we live in, it can't be reversed save by substantial if not global destruction, and the combination of untrammeled growth of sophistication of materials, systems, and interoperability and humans' unchanging nature, means that countervailing attempts that appear to curb the threat that such weapons and tools pose, is almost certainly illusory. Now depending on what theoretical flavor one favors, the existence of another construct, perhaps mere centimeters away, might allow for a plausibly different conclusion. But that's a discussion for forum members who actually know what they're talking about in that arena.
 
I don't really care who it is that is going to save my life, just so long as they do it.
 
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If Holographic Hitler tried to $ave my ass, I'd repay his hospitality by trying to kill him.
 
Refusing to use the knowledge gained won't cause it to un-happen, but in some cases it could encourage other medical researchers to do similar things. In the case of Nazis probably enough time has passed that this is not the case, but closer to the actual time frame it may have been. Experimenting on patients without their consent didn't just happen in Nazi Germany, they did it to gypsys in the US.

One of many examples, sadly, including Tuskegee and the open air immersions in St. Louis and other cities, to cite just a few that don't even factor in radiation experiments.

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/germs.htm
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2012/09...argeted-for-secret-cold-war-chemical-testing/

I'd rather be assimilated by the Borg and live forever! :borg: :adore:

Well I certainly wouldn't want to face that fate in any instance. Immortality doesn't hold much interest to me anyway, but is it canonically stated anywhere that drones do, in fact, live forever? We know that those that encounter serious enough functional problems are, without any concern, relegated to the recycling pile. Actually, I imagine that would be the fate for any unit whose operability is materially degraded, with the exception of a very special one, such as Seven or Locutus.
 
Refusing to use the knowledge gained won't cause it to un-happen, but in some cases it could encourage other medical researchers to do similar things.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The absolute evil of the Nazi regime is fairly well known. Anyone who's sick enough to try and re-create what they did, is going to do it no matter what. The only thing that encourages people like that is their own twisted nature.

Like I said, the knowledge is already out there, so why not let it do some good for a change? If B'Elanna had died in "Nothing Human", how would that have helped? That wouldn't have caused Moset's research to disappear either. And the fact that it was used, is not going to encourage anyone.
 
Mr. Laser Beam said it best but, yeah, it's just a hologram. I would simply (and I'm not sure why the Doctor didn't) transfer Hitler's matrix into someone else, like Doctor Crusher or Batgirl (why not).
 
The doc didn't know about Moset's background until after Tabor had a meltdown at which point B'Elanna refused to accept treatment (which wasn't in keeping with her established attitude to holograms at all but hey... it made for a good story).

By that point, turning the hologram into Kermit the frog wouldn't have made a difference because it was still using Moset's knowledge and that was what they took exception to.

It felt a little fake to me. Maybe that's why they used Tabor - his outrage being a bridge to B'Elanna's behaviour.
 
B'Elanna wouldn't allow Crell Moset to operate on her or even allow the doctor to use knowledge acquired from him. Tabor was even willing to resign his commission over it (and he wasn't even being operated on). Janeway ultimately dismissed B'Elanna's concerns and gave the Doc the go-ahead.

What I find odd is B'Elanna's complete change of heart regarding holograms. Throughout the show, she regularly dismissed notions of them being anything more than tools, including in Latent Image...

Suddenly, she now sees them as more than just photons and forcefields?

Would you allow it?
This was consistent of the horrible writing from the Voyager staff; B'Elanna's ethics changed whenever it suited her, just like Janeway, which were annoying to watch. The real challenge for a writer is to engage the character with challenges which may hinder her ethics, but this was not the case. It's more of B'Elanna having one of her bad days episode again, and it's on Tabor that time.

It's ridiculous for B'Elanna to act that way, her ignorance was bewildering to say the least. All the Doctor should've done was trade images with Tabor. The Doctor does something equally dumb by erasing the program, good thing the writers knew Voyager would never need that resource ever again.

As for Hitler? Hey, he shook Jesse Owen's hand unlike FDR, and I'm blonde, and blue eyed, he ridiculously thought my ilk was perfect. Didn't he know we CAN'T TAN??? Perfect skin should at least be resistant to the Sun's rays, like Africans. As for the question, I'll accept his hand as long as he doesn't retract it.
 
I would have expected the Grandfather Paradox corollary of Godwin's Law to have killed this thread before it was born.
 
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