CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Albinator]

I would like to see a reimagining, personnally.

No argument, but I don't want to get caught up in semantics.

So, lets imagine what 250 years from now will look like from today, opposed to 50 years ago.

I don't think that's the way to go either. Remember that Star Trek is more than just "the future as we imagine it." It's one of those nebulous things you can't necessarily define (although we all try), but Star Trek-- to me-- is more than simply "the future!" Could you imagine a new series not having starships and the Federation, for example? One might argue the future as we imagine it today won't have those things. We probably won't have transporters 250 years from now. Or relations with any sentient alien life. What kind of show is that?

Seriously, would you imagine landing parties having separate communicators, and tricorders?

Yes, I can. we had it in the Enterprise, we have it in the JJ movies, and it works just fine. It's all in the presentation. That sort of stuff does not bother me, one way or the other.

So maybe the tricorder is a different device, fine. Maybe the transporter works differently, or they have a new fancier means of getting around. New weapons. New aliens, a new Federation even. But not just for the sake of doing something different: change is good, but change for change's sake is not.

I want it to feel like Star Trek, even if it's a new flavor. If it's totally new, and unrecognizable as Star Trek, why am I watching? Why call it Star Trek at all? Yes, CBS knows that all Trekkies will tune in, but will they stay just because it has that name on the title screen?

 

[Squiggy]

Ironically, that's absolutely what I don't want. I want classic Trek, TNG Trek-- but updated with modern effects, more depthful storytelling. I certainly don't want dark, serious, intense drama. "Feel-good" is the wrong word certainly, but I do want a show that I can come away with a big grin on my face at the end.

The idea of a dark and serious, gritty Trek intrigued me for a while when it was being talked about back in the mid 00's, but i've seen enough of that kind of stuff in recent years elsewhere.

I think that ship has sailed. Gone are the days of feel-good episodes that wrap up in the last 3 minutes that don't affect next week's new episode of STAAAAAAAR Trek.

Dark and gritty is the name of the game. People want realism - either in single cam comedies or dramas with a season long arc. It's the evolution of the medium.

Please forgive me but .......if they are being represented pro bono.......why does he need more money?

W&S are waiving the attorney's fees. Peters is still going to get billed for travel (to and from San Fran), copying, etc. It ads up.

Yeah, I doubt they're going after the existing trekkie audience. There's no future there.

Quite right.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me TNG isn't 'Trek.' I don't mean that the way the phrase is typically used, just that it doesn't define the franchise for me. It's part of a ever-growing whole, and that 'growth' will inevitably mean change.

A respectable opinion - but I think what is being said that when you close your eyes and imagine "Trek", what do you imagine? Kirk in velour beating up a rubber faced lizard man and sexing his way through space or Picard in skin tight spandex pontificating about how great humanity has gotten or Sisko in pajamas brooding his way through Emo Space 9.

Of course TNG is as much "Trek" as any other series, but's one is more dear over another. Sorta like having "your Doctor".

I grew up with TNG so that's what Trek is to me. That doesn't lessen the other shows. I enjoy them all - even the horrible space lizards.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Maybe instead of a Eugenics wars.... a future Star Trek Series could look back on an AI war... where human experimentation with artificial intelligence went off the rails resulting in the banning of research into AI...

No, that would wreck the Star Trek universe completely, as the computers on most Starfleet ships are (IIRC) near-AI's so as to be able to execute certain special functions, like being sent someplace when programmed to. That sounds like the Bultlerian Jihad from Dune, and I don't think that the universe of Star Trek could take that (especially other races in the Federation that might object to that. I'd wager that the Federation and its members would have come up with something like the Turing Agency to police the handling of AI's, but that's just me.

 

[Squiggy]

I would prefer they just ignore what happened on earth from 1970-2060 rather they correct wars that didn't actually happen.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Maybe instead of a Eugenics wars.... a future Star Trek Series could look back on an AI war... where human experimentation with artificial intelligence went off the rails resulting in the banning of research into AI...

No, that would wreck the Star Trek universe completely, as the computers on most Starfleet ships are (IIRC) near-AI's so as to be able to execute certain special functions, like being sent someplace when programmed to. That sounds like the Bultlerian Jihad from Dune, and I don't think that the universe of Star Trek could take that (especially other races in the Federation which might object to that.) I'd wager that the Federation and its members would have come up with something like the Turing Agency to police the handling of AI's, but that's just me.

 

[JoeZhang]

I would prefer they just ignore what happened on earth from 1970-2060 rather they correct wars that didn't actually happen.

The war on Christmas DID happen regardless of what liberals like you say - clearly that is what the focus of the new show should be.

 

[Albinator]

I think that ship has sailed. Gone are the days of feel-good episodes that wrap up in the last 3 minutes that don't affect next week's new episode of STAAAAAAAR Trek.

I guess you missed the part where I said "not feel-good." I just don't want to walk away depressed.

Dark and gritty is the name of the game. People want realism - either in single cam comedies or dramas with a season long arc. It's the evolution of the medium.

Have to disagree with you with your last point. I think we're just going through a trend right now of dark, serious television. But realism doesn't have to be dark and gritty, either. Justified is one I come back to a lot: it was serious, very dramatic, had it's dark spots, but the lead characters were fun and charismatic and when they'd get the bad guy you cheered. That's what I want.

I just don't want them to forget that Star Trek can be fun. I think that's exactly what JJ got right.

A respectable opinion - but I think what is being said that when you close your eyes and imagine "Trek", what do you imagine? Kirk in velour beating up a rubber faced lizard man and sexing his way through space or Picard in skin tight spandex pontificating about how great humanity has gotten or Sisko in pajamas brooding his way through Emo Space 9.

I always thought Sisko was one of the most depthful characters in Trek. He wasn't one-note like Kirk. He was brooding when the story called for it, be he always had a deep-seeded optimism. The best episode is when he questions that, and over the course of the next season has to do some soul searching. Inner conflict is necessary in good drama: it doesn't make him "emo."

QUOTE="Squiggy, post: 11451560, member: 5980"]Of course TNG is as much "Trek" as any other series, but's one is more dear over another. Sorta like having "your Doctor". [/QUOTE]

Like you, TNG is "my doctor." I love DS9 a lot-- much stronger in terms of narrative-- and I enjoy Voyager too (moreso now then at the time) and Enterprise (ditto like Voyager, more today, than then). At the time I thought the Xindi arc improved the show, but in retrospect it's the weakest season for me.

TNG was a character-first show, DS9 was a story-first show, Voyager was just a mess in terms of focus but is overall the only one to be of consistent quality beginning to end (but on the flip side it remains mediocre throughout and never hits the highs that TNG or DS9 did at their best). Enterprise tried really hard, but suffered from over-saturation, the need to remain consistent with Trek history, and miscast actors.

 

[urbandefault]

TNG was a character-first show, DS9 was a story-first show

Are you sure that isn't the other way around?

 

[Albinator]

Are you sure that isn't the other way around?

Absolutely 100%.

 

[controlfreak]

Very sad to see the "We Stand With CBS" Facebook page is gone. What happened?? The "I Stand With Axanar" People are drooling all over themselves.

Wha Happen??

 

[Earthrise]

Very sad to see the "We Stand With CBS" Facebook page is gone. What happened?? The "I Stand With Axanar" People are drooling all over themselves.

Wha Happen??

Start reading on page 318 of this thread.

 

[Albinator]

The "I Stand With Axanar" People are drooling all over themselves.

Let them drool. They're still not going to get an Axanar movie.

 

[Steve Roby]

Sorry for the nitpick, Albinator, but it's "deep-seated," not "deep-seeded." This is one of those ones that people seem to get wrong a lot more often than right, like "free reign" (it's "free rein"). I apologize again for my compulsive language policing.

I think you can make the case for DS9 being more story-driven than TNG, given that there are story elements that extend through the whole show, season-long arcs, etc, but at the same time, there was a lot more character development in DS9 than in TNG. Even supporting characters on DS9 got the kind of growth that Picard had on TNG. I think it'd be hard to argue that Riker and Crusher grew as much as anyone on DS9 did, for example.

As for the new series... while part of me might enjoy a dark, gritty, serialized story, I really hope tptb look at Doctor Who. Russell T Davies and his successors brought back a show that had been written off as old-fashioned crap and made it a worldwide success, and they didn't do that by going dark. They made it a show that appealed to a broad audience without losing most of the core audience. For that matter, TNG managed it, too, after a shaky start. Maybe it can happen again.

 

[Count Zero]

There are about 1000 messages between the last time I checked the thread and now which is just too much to read up on. So, what happened to the "I stand with CBS" group? And did I miss anything else?

 

[Squiggy]

1. People were doing things I didn't approve of.
2. They did it whilst I was sleeping.
3. Peters threatened to sue everyone (he has no grounds, but that won't stop him)
4. I didn't want the drama.
5. I closed the group.

One of his supporters doxxed my Zillow account too. It was time to step back and no longer be a target.

 

[Albinator]

Sorry for the nitpick, Albinator, but it's "deep-seated," not "deep-seeded." This is one of those ones that people seem to get wrong a lot more often than right, like "free reign" (it's "free rein"). I apologize again for my compulsive language policing.

If you're so sorry than don't do it. If you're going to correct grammar and language (something I value) don't apologize! Own it.

I think you can make the case for DS9 being more story-driven than TNG, given that there are story elements that extend through the whole show, season-long arcs, etc, but at the same time, there was a lot more character development in DS9 than in TNG. Even supporting characters on DS9 got the kind of growth that Picard had on TNG.

Growth sure, but in terms of what drove the stories it was the characters.

As for the new series... while part of me might enjoy a dark, gritty, serialized story, I really hope tptb look at Doctor Who.

Bingo.

 

[Count Zero]

1. People were doing things I didn't approve of.
2. They did it whilst I was sleeping.
3. Peters threatened to sue everyone (he has no grounds, but that won't stop him)
4. I didn't want the drama.
5. I closed the group.

One of his supporters doxxed my Zillow account too. It was time to step back and no longer be a target.

Thanks for the info. Wow. It's disconcerting how the Axanar supporters manage to supress opinions they don't like on the net.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

^Peters is now my complete enemy.

 

[Admiral Cain]

I got the impression Admiral Cain was someone who has spent time in a forum where it's a big no-no to wander from the topic. I've seen scolding for that various places and it always makes me want to leave. When I was moderator of a forum, people would sometimes complain about being off-topic and I'd shush those ones. Admiral Cain, the discussion will go where it goes.

Yup, Lynsioux the main forum I'm on is really strict about that. Sorry I just assumed most forums were. Carry on!

 

[KennyB]

W&S are waiving the attorney's fees. Peters is still going to get billed for travel (to and from San Fran), copying, etc. It ads up.

Had no idea he was still on the hook for that............Thanks for that info Squiggy