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Most Overrated Character

Which character is the most overrated, in your opinion?

  • Kathryn Janeway

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Chakotay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • B'Elanna Torres

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Kes

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Tom Paris

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Neelix

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • The Doctor

    Votes: 4 19.0%
  • Tuvok

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Harry Kim

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Seven of Nine

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Definitely Kes for me.

I never really cared that much about her despite her being pleasant and having a lovely voice. She is quite bland to me and I am unsure where the character was really going to go. She could easily have faded into the background and been a recurring character and it would not have made a bit of difference to the show. [I also can't help but suspect that some love her simply because they are attracted to that type of woman. See: Ezri]

I think with Seven [and Jeri Ryan] they upgraded to a far more interesting character [and a far better actress than Lien]. I'm quite unsure why so many bemoan Kes leaving [and I liked her!].

Not that it's very significant, but I'm a little thrown by your first saying that you didn't care that much about her and then conclude by stating that you liked her!? As to your wondering about that last issue, there are far too many reasons to succinctly state IMO, so I won't even try. Suffice it say that I found that she solely made an extraordinary character, basically from whole cloth, and one of the tragedies surrounding the fate of that character (and the actor herself but that's a whole other story), is that the TPTB simply didn't seem to recognize the unique quality of the talent they had in their midst. Granted, Lien didn't help her cause by not communicating with them about her thoughts of how Kes's arc might proceed, as seemingly all the other actors did when provided the opportunity to do so, and in fact, sounds as if she was pretty much was a silent participant in the production.

Nevertheless, I'm of a mind, however rarely one might encounter the opinion otherwise, that the comments about the stunning abilities she possessed, from her castmates at the time and continuing to the present day, were totally genuine, honest, and heartfelt and not expressions of sympathy, regret, or confidence boosting for Lien. I think that, without equivocation, she was one of the finest actors of the entire franchise, and that a full run on Voyager, with the accompanying elevation of development and usage of Kes that such an outcome would most likely have presaged, would have clearly validated that conclusion for many many people.
 
Not that it's very significant, but I'm a little thrown by your first saying that you didn't care that much about her and then conclude by stating that you liked her!? As to your wondering about that last issue, there are far too many reasons to succinctly state IMO, so I won't even try. Suffice it say that I found that she solely made an extraordinary character, basically from whole cloth, and one of the tragedies surrounding the fate of that character (and the actor herself but that's a whole other story), is that the TPTB simply didn't seem to recognize the unique quality of the talent they had in their midst. Granted, Lien didn't help her cause by not communicating with them about her thoughts of how Kes's arc might proceed, as seemingly all the other actors did when provided the opportunity to do so, and in fact, sounds as if she was pretty much was a silent participant in the production.

Nevertheless, I'm of a mind, however rarely one might encounter the opinion otherwise, that the comments about the stunning abilities she possessed, from her castmates at the time and continuing to the present day, were totally genuine, honest, and heartfelt and not expressions of sympathy, regret, or confidence boosting for Lien. I think that, without equivocation, she was one of the finest actors of the entire franchise, and that a full run on Voyager, with the accompanying elevation of development and usage of Kes that such an outcome would most likely have presaged, would have clearly validated that conclusion for many many people.

Yes I liked Kes, it would be hard not to. She is the wee, quiet, pleasant girl. But I found her bland or, as I originally put it, that I found it hard to care about her. It is quite a simple concept and the two feelings aren't mutually exclusive.

Put simply, I like her but she is pretty dull.

As for your second point, 'stunning abilities' and 'one of the finest actors of the franchise' is, to me, a gross overstatement. For a start she is barely given enough material to make any kind of significant impression on the viewer let alone to give her those kinds of awards and secondly, as I stated, I find the character of Kes quite one-dimensional. Off the top of my head Stewart, Spiner, Visitor, Mulgrew, Ryan, Picardo, Dawson, Auberjonois, Shimmerman, Robinson and Trineer are all far better than her in-franchise.

To each his own, but I find Jeri Ryan and Seven just far better in about every conceivable way in relation to Jennifer Lien and Kes.
 
I agree that her presence on the show was minimal enough to clearly justify the character's description as a secondary character, although one that didn't necessarily suffer in screen time compared to others, especially after Seven's introduction. As well, I'm in no way saying that she is one of the most important characters in the franchise, though I don't believe your statements necessarily reflect that apprehension. The phrase "stunning abilities" is not something I introduced as my opinion, though I do agree with it, but is expressed by at least four of her castmates (Mulgrew, Phillips, Russ, and Picardo) who have stated it numerous times in forums ranging from DVD extras commentaries to responses at conventions, and again not just immediately after Lien's departure, but extending to the present. What would account for their doing so, unless they, as seasoned veteran performers who've appeared with many commonly recognized excellent actors otherwise, truly meant what they were saying? At the least, I would wager that they are all aware of Lien's isolation and basically having fallen off the face of the earth, if not how she has made manifest the depth of her illness in recent years, so I sincerely doubt that they would consider for a moment, that she would ever be aware of any comments that they made if for the purpose of communicating some kind of affirmation to her.

As to my apprehension of her talents, I should have mentioned that it also takes into consideration her two film roles as well, though I would hold the same opinion without those being present. I have made more than a few posts about the reasons for my perception of those abilities (including my very first one) and I don't feel inclined to launch into an exegesis at the moment to fully explain them. However, I will say that I think Lien brings an exceptional intuitiveness and perceptiveness that informs in a most vivid way how her character is constituted. Yes, I did use the word vivid, because I find, even as Kes, that Lien is able to wield a most discerning expressiveness that belies the common description of blandness or even invisibility, with an extremely nuanced and mature understanding that communicates a wealth of detail that other actors might choose to much more overtly represent. As opposed to a vacuousness that many see, I witness a determined strength and steeliness of resolve, expressed with such a seeming minimum of effort, but unmistakably present as one of the most cardinal aspects of this multi-faceted character. I recently referred to what seems to me be a remarkable passage in which she calmly, lucidly, and most importantly, believably propounds an argument to a character who vehemently doesn't want to hear it, yet as portrayed, is quite plausibly drawn into its clarity. I certainly wouldn't warrant that there haven't been a number of such demonstrations in episodes I've never seen, but of those many of the various series that I have, I've rarely, if ever been struck by the artistry shown that so expertly defines the core of a character in such a telling and feelingly manner. I can't find a clip of the sequence on its own, but you can view it at on the link below from 35:50-37:20. What it also displays is the innate wisdom of Kes, which Lien is able to transmit even in a situation of extreme apparent danger.

I don't claim any bonafides as a acting critic. However, what I think strikes me most about what Lien is able to do, perhaps lies outside any performing technique and is much more a matter of presence. I find that there is a remarkable, preternatural perhaps, sense of empathy that imbues her appearance as Kes. It's almost as if it's a quality that resonates outside the character itself. For me, it inspires a feeling that endures as a memory in the same way that seeing an extraordinary act of random kindness by happenstance, likely would remain in one's consciousness long after its occurrence, perhaps always.

So maybe for me, the experience I hold can be described more as a result of a kind of alchemy than acting, made all the more remarkable by its practitioner being so amazingly young and yet so assured. So, as I said earlier, while there is professional validation of Lien's talents available to sample as well, the affirmation that I personally experience is a profound and moving one.


http://ishare.rediff.com/video/ente...e-darkling-snake-eyes-/2367130?pos=playerreco
 
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Janeway, 7 of 9, the Doctor, Chakotay, Kim, Paris were all overrrated Im sorry to say. Tuvok was underrated.
 
The Doctor, with no hesitation. It's very simple, at the end, I couldn't bear him anymore. His omnipresence on the screen had become unbearable.

What I don't understand is the more he broke the orders/rules or put himself in the worst situations, the more Captain Janeway forgave his misdemeanors.
 
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