• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

Status
Not open for further replies.
All these new lawyers have to do is agree to not make Trek merchandise and then CBS can save face. Without going to court and POSSIBLY losing, opening up the flood doors, CBS can claim victory (no profit made off of fan-fic), Axanar is made and we go on. As far as any offices and such, no one but the donors have any say in what if any punishment (refund et al) is meted. Least of all, no one in this thread that is already getting the noose ready and trap door oiled up for Alec.
 
I was thinking maybe a one-time license to Axanar Productions, with all profits going to CBS, allowing Axanar to be a real commercial production. I doubt CBS wants his studio.

I doubt this is legally or economically feasible. It would open CBS to being inundated with every person that wants to make official Star Trek. There's also no way Axanar could make an official production for what money they have. Every one working would have to belong to unions and get paid.
 
You'd have to reshoot it from scratch to get it to work because.of union regulations CBS signed up to. There's no incentive for CBS to do that since they are going to waltz the legal action at a canter.

Reshoot what exactly? They've only shot one scene! :lol:

OK, 293 pages.... Why is this lawsuit thread getting so much more discussion than the threads that actually discuss fan-produced episodes? :wtf:

Kor

Because it's fascinating, and it could have serious impact on the future of fan films?

Could be worse, I assure you. My folks watched the entirety of the O.J. Simpson trial. Every. Last. Minute. I was so terribly neglected during that period. ;)
 
That could also work - both sides get what they want, the fans are happy and honour is maintained for both sides
It's just such a tall order. The biggest problem would be the precedent being set. A big-time studio can't validate stealing IP as a pathway to legitimate production and distribution. Fans are always hyper-critical of the writing-teams, producers, script editors, etc. behind Star Trek, Dr. Who, etc. "If you build it, they will come" must, in regards to fan-films, only refer to fans and not profit. Or every trekker who thinks they would Do Trek Right would launch crowd-funding campaigns to start their studio tomorrow, hoping to get picked up.
 
Very unlikely this, but this is what I would pitch as a solution so all sides get something...

A) Axanar Productions is purchased by CBS... Making it a CBS subsidiary arm...

B) A CBS lawyer/s is appointed to oversee completion of the movie according to the script as it is written at this moment in time

C) Donors are refunded their money as quickly and as fully as possible

D) Peters signs an agreement to not produce or sell anything that violates the IP of CBS - except where prior permission has been granted to waive that agreement for an occasion

E) Get on with making Star Trek

Alec gets to make his "fanfilm", CBS stop him doing anything else and the fans get the thing they've paid for

This will never happen. You may quote me. :)

Arrogance? That would require forgetting this little thing called common sense!

Leaving aside everyone's personal opinions regarding Peters and some of the other Axanar staffers, let's look at things that we can reasonably conclude are solid facts:
  • CBS and Paramount own the rights to the Star Trek franchise, and all that entails.
  • Prelude to Axanar, and by intention, Star Trek: Axanar, infringe on the intellectual property involved in that franchise. The degree to which they infringe may be disputed, but that they do infringe cannot be disputed.
  • CBS and Paramount are enormous corporations that have vast financial and legal resources.
  • Axanar Productions... has a pro bono attorney, and not much else. No matter how good that attorney is, CBS/Paramount have far greater resources than Axanar does.
  • It is in the best interests of CBS and Paramount -- and, indeed, every other rights holder in Hollywood -- to ensure that their rights are protected.
These things really can't be sanely argued. They're facts, and disputing them is pretty much an act of self delusion. And when you put them all together, Axanar has already lost.

The only question we need to ask is, how badly, and what form will it take?

Personally, I see only one potential silver lining to Axanar's cloud, and that's dependent upon just how strong an argument they can make that fan films should be allowable under current copyright law. If they have a defense that might be worth something, then CBS would be much more likely to settle. In reference to that last point up there, they probably don't want precedent set in this area any more than a lot of us do, and for exactly the same reason: the possibility exists, no matter how remote, that it could go against them.

This could lead to a settlement in some form, but you can bet that it will be very much in CBS/Paramount's favor. It is doubtful that Axanar will ever be allowed to be made as a Trek film, because that would be too much capitulation for CBS/Paramount; it would set them up to go through this all over again when the next yahoo tries something similar.

CBS will do everything in their power to ensure that this mythical viable defense is never actually tested in court. Of that you can be certain. Everyone has their price, and CBS would find one that the Axanar folks can't walk away from, and which still gives them what they want.

That said, such a defense almost certainly doesn't exist in this case. Looked at from a common sense perspective, Axanar has drawn tremendous funding from CBS IP, they have done business surrounding it -- and whether that business is for-profit or not is irrelevant. I cannot imagine a court treating this with kid gloves like they might a garage-made fan film. It would have to be one hell of an argument.

Nobody can ever be 100% certain of anything, but the likelihood of a good outcome for Axanar is so remote as to be laughable -- and one does not need a deep understanding of IP law to see that. Just look at history, and the power that Hollywood wields in general.

JMHO, of course.

Disclaimer for those just joining us: the above is my personal opinion. I AM NOT A LAWYER OF ANY DESCRIPTION!

This is, in my opinion, more likely to be the outcome.
 
I was thinking maybe a one-time license to Axanar Productions, with all profits going to CBS, allowing Axanar to be a real commercial production.

If CBS wanted to come to some sort of an arrangement or settlement they would have just contacted them and made a deal.
The fact that they're automatically suing means CBS wants to send a clear message that you can't use their IP willy-nilly, especially for your own personal gain.
 
CBS and Paramount have the resources to drag this out until the end of time. Alec Peters and Axanar do not, and neither do their pro bono legal team. It doesn't matter what fans of Axanar say or do, there is no way that this ends with a CBS approved Axanar film.

No way.

If AP's attorneys are honest with him, they will tell him to settle (or give up) and move on.

My opinion, of course.
 
I was thinking maybe a one-time license to Axanar Productions, with all profits going to CBS, allowing Axanar to be a real commercial production.
I would be extremely surprised, if anything even remotely like this happened.

CBS has a new show coming out next year. CBS and Paramount currently have no incentive to license the production of more than one movie series and one television-type show. They have a successful movie series in progress, and CBS will now try to launch a new show. They have no need for complications. As has already been observed/theorized, one important aspect of the lawsuit is the timing of it to protect the launch of the new series from unfair and illegal competition.

As a footnote, one of the well-known arguments attempting to explain the demise of prime Trek was "franchise fatigue," a.k.a. too many shows with the Star Trek brand airing in too short a space of time. Regardless of whether that argument is adequate to explain the demise or not, licensing an additional web movie/show would effectively mean that CBS would be competing against themselves. At a minimum, that would upset the numbers for the new show. Why would they do that? Why would they do that with a lawsuit? If their intent was to produce Axanar, I think they would have done something else besides sue.

To recap, I'd be extremely surprised.
 
Very unlikely this, but this is what I would pitch as a solution so all sides get something...

A) Axanar Productions is purchased by CBS... Making it a CBS subsidiary arm...

B) A CBS lawyer/s is appointed to oversee completion of the movie according to the script as it is written at this moment in time

C) Donors are refunded their money as quickly and as fully as possible

D) Peters signs an agreement to not produce or sell anything that violates the IP of CBS - except where prior permission has been granted to waive that agreement for an occasion

E) Get on with making Star Trek

Alec gets to make his "fanfilm", CBS stop him doing anything else and the fans get the thing they've paid for


Why do both sides have to get something? Why should Axanar get anything? Why would it be in CBS's interest to give up anything? Possibly take less money, sure. But this movie is dead.
 
All these new lawyers have to do is agree to not make Trek merchandise and then CBS can save face. Without going to court and POSSIBLY losing, opening up the flood doors, CBS can claim victory (no profit made off of fan-fic), Axanar is made and we go on. As far as any offices and such, no one but the donors have any say in what if any punishment (refund et al) is meted. Least of all, no one in this thread that is already getting the noose ready and trap door oiled up for Alec.

Why do you think CBS only needs to stop the merchandising? Wouldn't you agree that if a million in donations is raised for an unlicensed use of Trek IP in a film, and say 250k of it is invested into a permanent studio fixtures, and another couple hundred thousand is spent on salaries and other business expenses for persons spending at least part of their time on the long term for profit corporation buildout, that this would be profit off Trek IP by Ares/Axanar too?

It really is a fallacy being put out by interested parties, that normal business expenses for workers and equipment and space and operations for a for profit business buildup are "not for profit" simply because they are working mostly but not exclusively at the moment on something funded by fans.

It is the business that is happening here, and the funded film is a task it is taking on. This is how the Axanar/Ares staff have chosen to structure their use of the funds and have structured their business incorporation and operations, and this is the framework in which their actions should be weighed against the CBS "make no money" rule.
 
Why do both sides have to get something? Why should Axanar get anything? Why would it be in CBS's interest to give up anything? Possibly take less money, sure. But this movie is dead.

I know that, but at least honour is settled for all - otherwise, this is going to cause riots in the streets

Never forget the Great Trek Wars of 2331
 
really good point. here's a thought: CBS could say they will take whatever money they get, and give it back to the donors thru (at least partial) refunds administered in coordination with indiegogo and kickstarter.

This would be a brilliant move. And I think it would be good PR for KS and IG to assist in this endeavor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top