You really don't need to be a high powered IP attorney to figure out how this is gonna play out...
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
- Start date
- Status
You really don't need to be a high powered IP attorney to figure out how this is gonna play out...
I think the point where we start talking about sides in opposition is the point where we all lose as Star Trek fans.
I disagree. We have an issue here, and there is one side (supporters) and the other (detractors). It's a fair assessment. The fans on this board generally are not supporters of Axanar, and the detractors are decrying the arrogance they see from many Axanar supporters.
And I think it's just as much arrogance to be so assured that Axanar has no chance here.
Broadly speaking, I think it's very important to retain an element of objectivity and fairness. Even Skip said in his articles that while he couldn't see where Axanar would have a defense, he understood that perhaps there was an angle he could not see. Others with some experience in law expressed similar sentiment.
As for "we all lose as Star Trek fans"-- blame Axanar for crossing CBS and forcing (and encouraging) fans to take sides, though to me "taking sides" is not an issue of concern. There are always disagreements within any fandom or group at large.
But if that's the motivation to go pro-bono, it would entail lying to their client. Either Alec is putting on a brave face or the lawyers who can't have a snowball's chance in hell at winning are deceiving him about their odds.
Maybe you're right and this is a quick loss. But I think it's the height of arrogance to say you "know" when you have so little knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the case law involved.
The only thing I see as certain is that there are all sorts of very specific statements of intent to knowingly violate IP posted online by Axanar both verbally and in print, examples of them creating products that violate IP, evidence of making profit from the IP if you interpret wages and material asset construction/acquisition as profit, and repeated statements published quoting CBS that that they aren't consenting to these actions.
What a legal firm experienced in reframing a debate like this might be able to do I couldn't speculate in detail. I just think the most likely outcome is a settlement preventing CBS from really taking much of the cash, in exchange for Axanar dropping use of Trek.
Will they instead try to fight out some novel defense in court? I think a whole lot of people will not want to go there, even if Alec and some of the attorneys want to. So it depends who in Axanar is talking to the attorneys.
I don't know anything about legal stuff, but I don't see any way that Axanar comes out on top. CBS owns the copyrights and trademarks, and use of them is at the pleasure of the owner. Full stop.
AP's position has been that they can make a better Star Trek film than the big guys, and I'm thinking that this will be a big part of the plaintiff's case. Axanar has raised over $1M using CBS' intellectual property. Axanar's legal team has a steep hill to climb. If they did in fact take on this case pro bono, it's only because, in my opinion, that they are trying to make a name for themselves in IP law.
I think the plaintiff will emphasize Axanar's intent to compete with Paramount in producing a Star Trek feature length film. Paramount is the only entity licensed to make Star Trek feature films.
Add to that the sales of merchandise based on CBS-owned IP, and to me it's a slam dunk.
But as I said, I have no real knowledge of how these things work.
Last edited:
He's gone to war against books?
love it. all the officials and attorneys and plaintiffs and defendants should go in costume. maybe someone can lend the judge Q's cap and robes.
really good point. here's a thought: CBS could say they will take whatever money they get, and give it back to the donors thru (at least partial) refunds administered in coordination with indiegogo and kickstarter.
Very unlikely this, but this is what I would pitch as a solution so all sides get something...
A) Axanar Productions is purchased by CBS... Making it a CBS subsidiary arm...
B) A CBS lawyer/s is appointed to oversee completion of the movie according to the script as it is written at this moment in time
C) Donors are refunded their money as quickly and as fully as possible
D) Peters signs an agreement to not produce or sell anything that violates the IP of CBS - except where prior permission has been granted to waive that agreement for an occasion
E) Get on with making Star Trek
Alec gets to make his "fanfilm", CBS stop him doing anything else and the fans get the thing they've paid for
A) Axanar Productions is purchased by CBS... Making it a CBS subsidiary arm...
B) A CBS lawyer/s is appointed to oversee completion of the movie according to the script as it is written at this moment in time
C) Donors are refunded their money as quickly and as fully as possible
D) Peters signs an agreement to not produce or sell anything that violates the IP of CBS - except where prior permission has been granted to waive that agreement for an occasion
E) Get on with making Star Trek
Alec gets to make his "fanfilm", CBS stop him doing anything else and the fans get the thing they've paid for
You'd have to reshoot it from scratch to get it to work because.of union regulations CBS signed up to. There's no incentive for CBS to do that since they are going to waltz the legal action at a canter.
I was thinking maybe a one-time license to Axanar Productions, with all profits going to CBS, allowing Axanar to be a real commercial production. I doubt CBS wants his studio.
That could also work - both sides get what they want, the fans are happy and honour is maintained for both sides
Arrogance? That would require forgetting this little thing called common sense!
Leaving aside everyone's personal opinions regarding Peters and some of the other Axanar staffers, let's look at things that we can reasonably conclude are solid facts:
- CBS and Paramount own the rights to the Star Trek franchise, and all that entails.
- Prelude to Axanar, and by intention, Star Trek: Axanar, infringe on the intellectual property involved in that franchise. The degree to which they infringe may be disputed, but that they do infringe cannot be disputed.
- CBS and Paramount are enormous corporations that have vast financial and legal resources.
- Axanar Productions... has a pro bono attorney, and not much else. No matter how good that attorney is, CBS/Paramount have far greater resources than Axanar does.
- It is in the best interests of CBS and Paramount -- and, indeed, every other rights holder in Hollywood -- to ensure that their rights are protected.
The only question we need to ask is, how badly, and what form will it take?
Personally, I see only one potential silver lining to Axanar's cloud, and that's dependent upon just how strong an argument they can make that fan films should be allowable under current copyright law. If they have a defense that might be worth something, then CBS would be much more likely to settle. In reference to that last point up there, they probably don't want precedent set in this area any more than a lot of us do, and for exactly the same reason: the possibility exists, no matter how remote, that it could go against them.
This could lead to a settlement in some form, but you can bet that it will be very much in CBS/Paramount's favor. It is doubtful that Axanar will ever be allowed to be made as a Trek film, because that would be too much capitulation for CBS/Paramount; it would set them up to go through this all over again when the next yahoo tries something similar.
CBS will do everything in their power to ensure that this mythical viable defense is never actually tested in court. Of that you can be certain. Everyone has their price, and CBS would find one that the Axanar folks can't walk away from, and which still gives them what they want.
That said, such a defense almost certainly doesn't exist in this case. Looked at from a common sense perspective, Axanar has drawn tremendous funding from CBS IP, they have done business surrounding it -- and whether that business is for-profit or not is irrelevant. I cannot imagine a court treating this with kid gloves like they might a garage-made fan film. It would have to be one hell of an argument.
Nobody can ever be 100% certain of anything, but the likelihood of a good outcome for Axanar is so remote as to be laughable -- and one does not need a deep understanding of IP law to see that. Just look at history, and the power that Hollywood wields in general.
JMHO, of course.
Disclaimer for those just joining us: the above is my personal opinion. I AM NOT A LAWYER OF ANY DESCRIPTION!
Last edited:
- Status