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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Albinator said:
This is where we disagree. Call it whatever you want, it still has the potential to mix up the two properties in the minds of the less knowledgable, however briefly.
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Snipping just so I'm not doing a massive quote...

...but I think we'd half agree thinking about it. New Voyages etc that are obvious tributes or homages wouldn't tip anyone off. But if you google 'Star Trek' you do get a shot of renegades in an image search. Click on that you get to a YouTube video (here) and, while it may seem a little bit more Relic Hunter than Breaking Bad in terms of modern quality, that video (as you hinted at) has absolutely no mention of it being a fan film. Which is a little.... odd.

I think the average viewer would click on - we're all used to official shows being officially labelled and they'll make sure that a google search would come up with the appropriate results and the young(er) people are more in tune with the internet. But that lack of clarification on Renegades YouTube teaser is a bit iffy, especially with that description as is which could cause confusion.

I don't think it's worth them putting much thought into that in terms of losing audience, but a disclaimer that it's not official is certainly needed there.

Kegg said:
I don't see how 'it's CNN's fault' is relevant to CNN confusing Renegades with a real Star Trek production - the point is not that Star Trek experts versed in the distinction between professional and fan productions would make the mistake, but that the general public might make the mistake. If it's sufficiently confusing that news outlets might make the mistake, even if they shouldn't, it's sufficiently confusing that audiences might do the same thing.
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That could be said for dozens of things. If you learned about Supernatural from whats on the internet it's a whole different show about a socially awkward angel and his lover.

If someone gets confused between the many hundreds of fan vids on YouTube to a show marketed heavily by CBS - there's no hope for them. We've lost them. Next week they'll watch the musical episode showing clips of Bashir and Garak lustfully gazing into each others eyes as Celine Dion wails in the background and live their merry life.
 
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I still think CBS is going to let the "tribute" fan films stand. No one in their right mind is going to confuse NV with anything "modern" as it specifically and purposefully recreates the style of the 60s.

All the new stuff (zero budget hobbies notwithstanding) even if it looks like a horrible modern SyFy movie of the week? If you can squint your eyes and confuse between the two? Those days are numbered.
 
Remember the days when fan films were traded at conventions, and only available to people "in the know"? That's what we need to find a digital/online version of. Mitigate the risk of any mass audience member even finding out of their existence: keep them strictly to the diehard audience that really wants to see it.
 
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It starts at just about 25 minutes in but I admit we were less organized yesterday so there may be some earlier tidbits. It was a much more free-flowing discussion than we had had during the previous two shows. It ends at just about 42 minutes, something like that.

Thank you again for your support. We are continuing to watch - answers or motions are due on the 20th and 21st and I will take a gander at Pacer later this week if the mainstream press doesn't pick up anything.

And thank you to @oswriter for your thoughtful, well-researched, level-headed insights.
 
jamestyler said:
That could be said for dozens of things. If you learned about Supernatural from whats on the internet it's a whole different show about a socially awkward angel and his lover.
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But is that sufficiently confusing that CNN might post a Supernatural fan video with the title "From The CW"?

You can compare something like Renegades to equivalent fan film work for Star Wars, superheroes, Lord of the Rings and so on in that it may be sufficiently well made to be mistaken for a professional production; the same is not true for a lot of fan participation online.
 
Albinator said:
Even saying NV or Continues wouldn't "tip anyone off" is giving the audience a bit too much credit.
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Working in entertainment, I heard that line a lot frm the people who were supposed to be teaching me how things worked. Know what I learned? The audience don't get enough credit. We are not special snowflakes above the rest of the idiots sitting in front of their TV's. We are the idiots sitting in front of the TV's.
 
jamestyler said:
Working in entertainment, I heard that line a lot frm the people who were supposed to be teaching me how things worked. Know what I learned? The audience don't get enough credit. We are not special snowflakes above the rest of the idiots sitting in front of their TV's. We are the idiots sitting in front of the TV's.
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The fact that Walter Koenig is in Renegades, reprising his original canon role (like Gary Graham reprises Soval in Axanar), can be a big chunk of that confusion.
 
I'm guessing that the Axanar team won't be dropping a new podcast on the Trek.fm network for a while. I'm hoping that network's association with the project (I'm kind of ignorant about how podcasts work, but I'm assuming their connection is little more than providing a forum to upload podcasts) doesn't end up besmirching them. They do some superlative work IMO.
 
jespah said:
The fact that Walter Koenig is in Renegades, reprising his original canon role (like Gary Graham reprises Soval in Axanar), can be a big chunk of that confusion.
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One page behind you'll see my thoughts there, and why I quoted the comments regarding the TOS-style films and not Renegades.

Though if anyone thought that a modern adaptation of Star Trek would look like Renegades, particularly next to whats currently on the market, then brand confusion is the least of their worries.

It's a little bit insulting and elitist to assume that most of the people out there are complete idiots who'll trawl YouTube expecting to see the latest TV show and quite a bit foolish to think that somehow Renegades - despite the aforementioned ambiguity within their own YouTube content - would be the first port of call for anyone who wants to watch the new Star Trek show.

Even the google argument (about a hundred or so pages ago) makes little sense considering even just googline 'New Star Trek' show sno signs of any fan production on the front page.
 
jamestyler said:
Working in entertainment, I heard that line a lot frm the people who were supposed to be teaching me how things worked. Know what I learned? The audience don't get enough credit. We are not special snowflakes above the rest of the idiots sitting in front of their TV's. We are the idiots sitting in front of the TV's.
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Funny, working in entertainment, I learned the exact opposite.

jamestyler said:
It's a little bit insulting and elitist to assume that most of the people out there are complete idiots
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Maybe not most, but there is definitely a segment. My broad point being that if even a sliver of the audience has the potential to be confused with an illegally produced product, why allow them to sit side-by-side?

All I'm saying is that I don't think they should.
 
jamestyler said:
Even the google argument (about a hundred or so pages ago) makes little sense considering even just googline 'New Star Trek' show sno signs of any fan production on the front page.
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Type "new star trek" into Youtube. On the first page alone:

Star Trek: Renegades Official Trailer
Star Trek: Renegades (Episode 1)
Star Trek: Horizon Official Trailer
Star Trek: New Voyages - The Holiest Thing

None of these are labeled "Fan-Film" or "Unofficial" in their titles.
 
jamestyler said:
But if you google 'Star Trek' you do get a shot of renegades in an image search.
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It's way down the list though, well after this...

ILvv7MC.jpg


... and I doubt anyone would confuse that for an official production ;)
 
Albinator said:
I've always wondered why established professionals-- writers, actors, directors-- got involved with these productions at all, given the always-murky legal status of the productions. Particularly those who might have hopes of working on Trek again.
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I imagine because it gives them the opportunity to do a STAR TREK story they otherwise might never get to do. In David Gerrold's case, it was to bring "Blood and Fire" to life. With Walter's case, it was to have his last curtain call as Chekov — although he's come back for in encore more times than not. With George, it may have been because WEaT was a chance to finally do a meaningful Sulu tale.
 
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Putting aside how smart or dumb we think the audience is, or how "bootleg" vs "high quality" you might think fan films are, the core of my sentiment is that these copyright infringing films have POTENTIAL to cause confusion in the market place, particularly when a new online series arrives next year.

I don't see any reason why creating a clear separation -- limiting their distribution, for example-- is a problem. I just think it's the best solution for everyone.

In the end, the choice is CBS and Paramount's. If they agree with you and don't believe they cause a problem, it'll be business as usual. But if they agree that there COULD be brand confusion, there's a legitimate fear from one side of the fan aisle that they'll all be squashed. I'm not a follower of fan-films, but I don't want to see that happen either.
 
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