TOS Enterprise 3D model - update

[lomitus]

Alrighty,
For everyone who was kind enough to provide some feedback on the initial render tests, here's a quick update...

At this point, I've rebuilt about 60 - 70 percent of the model...new lower hull, new neck, new middle piece on the saucer section, etc., and I've tweaked out a few of the textures and made adjustments to the nacelles (per the original comments). Visually it's still quite similar to the earlier pics/model, however the geometry of the model itself is much better this time around.


I'm still fighting with Render options...just looks like there's no way I'm going to be able to use Mental Ray for this project (for anything other than ambiant occlusion passes), so I need to figure a way to get the Maya Software engine to render things a bit more "realistic" (or compensate in post). Mental Ray is fine for a few still shots (the shot seen here is 3 layers, using Mental Ray, Maya Software and an AO pass), however I suspect I'm gonna have around 12,000 total, so the renter time with Mental Ray is a massive consideration. I also still need to cut a new bridge assembly (for geometry reasons) and I just spotted a texture or two that needs some further tweaking. After that, I hope to be getting back to the lighting and animation tests...started that the other day, but had to stop because of the earlier geometry issues.


For those who didn't see the earlier threads, I have taken a number of artistic liberties - such as the textures, running lights and the bits of "chrome" here and there for example. Likewise, this model isn't based on any one specific reference, as much as it's my idealized vision of the TOS Enterprise (I've used online blue prints, my original Tech Manual, my old AMT model kit and of course, frequent references to the DVD's). In other words, don't expect this to be specifically representative of your favorite "version" of the TOS Enterprise (pilot I, pilot II, etc)...it's simply my interpretation .


Anyways, comments, suggestions and critiques are quite welcome...not much of an ego to bruise here, so lemme know what you think!

 

[martok2112]

That is really looking sweet!
I like the TMP styled lighting/glow effect you gave her on the sides near the nav deflector, highlighting the Federation banners.

Might I recommend the program iClone 6 PRO for rendering and animation. It is what I use, and has given me some amazing results with my TMP refit Enterprise, and other ships. It has excellent light sourcing and shadow casting, and in many cases, near photorealistic rendering.

I believe the program goes for around $250-300 now. (I got it for cheaper in a Black Friday sale.)

Oh, you would also need to buy 3DExchange 6 PRO.... (this program allows you to convert .obj, .3ds, .skp into usable formats for iClone. It can also convert some iClone props and characters into .obj files so you can alter them in the 3D model app of your choice) .so that might run another $150-200. Overall though, the price is well worth it.

Your Enterprise is actually about the way I see my TOS Enterprise shaping up if I ever get around to building it. (A few more ideas I was thinking of was putting RCS jets on the ship.... something the original series ship never really seemed to have visible on the hull). I like the semi-Azteca paint scheme you've given it (another thing I was thinking of doing with my TOS Enterprise). It makes it connect with the refit Enterprise in a very nice way.

Keep up the excellent work!

 

[lomitus]

That is really looking sweet!
I like the TMP styled lighting/glow effect you gave her on the sides near the nav deflector, highlighting the Federation banners.

Might I recommend the program iClone 6 PRO for rendering and animation.

Keep up the excellent work!

Thank you for the kind words...I'm grateful!

Yes, you are correct regarding the running lights and textures...they were indeed inspired by the movies (TWoK to be exact). In my first Enterprise animation (second ship build), I had used just plain white textures and that was fine for my level of modeling/animation skill at that time, however I just wasn't happy with that look this time around. Even looking at the digitally remastered version of TOS, there's something about those new fx that I really just don't like...in some ways I think it looks more fake than the original (IMO). Either way, just those two additions alone really make a difference visually...at least as far as I'm concerned.

I will have a peek at the software you mentioned, however since it has an "i" in the name, that seems to suggest it might be Mac oriented...even after working on the danged things for the past 6 years, I still just HATE Macs (there's really no advantage to them at all any more). For what it's worth, I've also looking at Pixar's Renderman, but that don't seem to cutting it for me either. In any case, I should be able to get close to what I want using Maya...one way or another...and with a bit of imagination, hopefully put the final polish on in post (either using Premiere or After Effects).

The big problem with the renders is again simply the render time. I like the look of these 3 layer stills...it's pretty close to what I want (although I need to do more with the scene lights...pretty basic right now). The problem however is that Mental Ray is taking 2 to 3 minutes PER frame...and that's JUST with the Enterprise...the animation is going to include a second ship, a shuttlecraft, a planet or two and possibly a space station...so I can see those Mental Ray render times getting really out of control really quick. Since I think I'm looking at around 12,000 frames total...you get the idea. Don't want to be sitting here for the next 2 years waiting for the renders to finish, LOL! If I have to, I can fire it all of using Maya Software...it doesn't really look "bad" at all, then just finish/touch it up in post.


Anyways, here's a couple more stills for your amusement/enjoyment. Along with the side running lights, you can see I've added them to the top and bottom of the primary hull (and I'm debating on putting a couple on the nacelles as well). I still have a lot of work to do on the lights...particularly for the animation, but over-all I think it's headed in the right direction. She's already looking A LOT better than my first Enterprise animation :-)

Again, thanks for the kind words - and enjoy!

 

[martok2112]

You're perfectly welcome!

This is a gorgeous looking model!

I know that I go on and on about iClone, (and it is available for Mac, I believe, but it is not an Apple product ). But the things I like about iClone is the very quick render time.

Using 3DExchange, you can bring your textured model in (.obj, .3DS, .skp) , and convert it to an iProp for use in iClone. In iClone, the textured model appears, and can be animated for movement, etc. And the render times for video or even still images are some of the fastest I've seen.

To give you an example of the quality I've gotten out of iClone:




These are just a couple of shots of my (multiple times) rebuilt refit Enterprise, as rendered in iClone. I did all the models, backgrounds, planet, etc. This was done with iClone 6 PRO, which has vastly improved on its light sourcing and shadow casting capabilities.

I have my own thread for these. I do not wish to hijack your thread. Just give you an example of what iClone can do. And these are just stills.... I'm going to rebuild the spacedock, and add the orbital space office, and try to do an animation.

Again, I look forward to more of your work

 

[lomitus]

I just took a look at the iClone website to see if they had it for Windows and to see if they had a trial version and while the answer is yes and yes...it also requires Windows 7 or higher. I'm still running XP64 and have NO desire to upgrade right now (especially not in the middle of a project). My backup render system does have Windows 7, but it only has a 120 gig hdd, so I can't really go loading much extra software (Maya and project files already take up a fair portion).

Also, after looking at their website a bit, I gotta say in all honesty that the program really looks more geared to game developers than it does film production. I didn't dig too deeply once I saw the Win 7 limitation, but most of the examples they have on their website (that I saw at least) really do have a game feel to them (the Unity support is another clue)...render time or not, it's just not what I'm looking for.

I do appreciate your comments and your suggestion there, but don't look like that's gonna happen.

 

[martok2112]

I just took a look at the iClone website to see if they had it for Windows and to see if they had a trial version and while the answer is yes and yes...it also requires Windows 7 or higher. I'm still running XP64 and have NO desire to upgrade right now (especially not in the middle of a project). My backup render system does have Windows 7, but it only has a 120 gig hdd, so I can't really go loading much extra software (Maya and project files already take up a fair portion).

Also, after looking at their website a bit, I gotta say in all honesty that the program really looks more geared to game developers than it does film production. I didn't dig too deeply once I saw the Win 7 limitation, but most of the examples they have on their website (that I saw at least) really do have a game feel to them (the Unity support is another clue)...render time or not, it's just not what I'm looking for.

I do appreciate your comments and your suggestion there, but don't look like that's gonna happen.

Oh, believe me, it's definitely intended for film production, but it has lately crossed over into game developer assistance.

But, I'm not here to try and sell you on the idea. iClone's probably not for everyone.

In any case, I continue to look forward to your further work.

 

[Starship]

Looking good lomitus!

My niptick is about the texture applyed over the saucer. It looks like a box, not as a saucer.
I think these tuts can give you the right directions to improve the mapps and how they can be applyed to the mesh. They verse about TMP, but surelly you can adapt them to TOS:
http://www.fleetops.net/forums/technical/how-to-wrap-a-nice-aztec-12415
http://www.meshweaver.com/tutorials/Aztec_Patterns.htm
http://discovery.scifi-art.com/aztec/index.html

 

[martok2112]

I have an Azteca pattern that I can email you, lomitus. It is meant for the TMP refit, but it would surely look good on your TOS model, and it is what I used on my refit build. (I was thinking of using it for when I get around to building my TOS Enterprise/Connie.)

 

[lomitus]

Looking good lomitus!

My niptick is about the texture applyed over the saucer. It looks like a box, not as a saucer.
I think these tuts can give you the right directions to improve the mapps and how they can be applyed to the mesh. They verse about TMP, but surelly you can adapt them to TOS:
http://www.fleetops.net/forums/technical/how-to-wrap-a-nice-aztec-12415
http://www.meshweaver.com/tutorials/Aztec_Patterns.htm
http://discovery.scifi-art.com/aztec/index.html

Yes, you're the second person to point out the texture maps on the saucer section. It's not a matter of "how" at all...I do know how to do it (although I do appreciate the links in any case), as much as it really just didn't bother me.

That said, I'll give it some thought...I still have a few things to do here (particularly on the second ship that's gonna be seen in the animation...Saladin Class), so I'll mull it over a bit.

Thank you for the comments...it's appreciated!

 

[MarsWeeps]

Beautiful ship! Just a few nits...the domes at the rear of the nacelles look too small, is that intentional? Also, I'd lose the aztec-ing, it has no place on TOS Enterprise! The overall color appears to be too gray, I'd lighten it up a bit. Or, you can just rename the ship to one of the other Connies and leave everything as is!

 

[lomitus]

Okies...since a couple of folks have mentioned it, I'm playing with that primary hull texture a bit. I -really- didn't like the straight polar coordinates thing in Photoshop...just degraded the image far too much on the outer edge, however after some teeth gnashing, I think I came up with something here that I think works.

Since I've mentioned a "second ship" a couple of times for this animation, here she is...with the new primary hull texture. I give you the U.S.S. Hathor - "Mistress of the West". Saladin Class, Siva Sub-class, with a couple of bits of artistic license thrown in :-)

Since the hull construction is identical to that of the Enterprise (I used parts from the Enterprise to build her, if you hadn't already guessed), I can copy the new textures over without a problem.

Again, please lemme know what you think!

(P.S. Marsweeps - sorry my friend, but the textures ARE staying...even the DM version of TOS has textures).

 

[MarsWeeps]

(P.S. Marsweeps - sorry my friend, but the textures ARE staying...even the DM version of TOS has textures).

That's fine, it's your ship! I just never saw all that aztec-ing in any of TOS episodes. As long as you keep it subtle, it won't take away from the appearance.

 

[martok2112]

That's exactly what I do, lomitus, when I make ships that share some of the same features... I basically just kit-bash, virtually.

Nice looking Saladin class there. Would love to see it and your Connie flying side by side in a shot.

Photoshop is what I used to use, but it is a very old version. So old that it won't run on my new computer. So, I had to give GIMP a try. It was okay, but I decided to go ahead and buy Paint Shop Pro's current version. Not bad at all. Of course, if I really do need to use Photoshop, I can always go back to my older computer to work up textures.

Keep up the excellent work, my friend. You've made some gorgeous looking ships there.

 

[MadMan1701A]

Awesome model, I think it looks great. Changing the panel detailing on the saucer definitely made it look more finished.

-Ricky

 

[Albertese]

Yes, the circular paneling on the saucer is a huge improvement.

Also, I feel I should correct an earlier statement I made, about the black band on the aft end of your engines being totally your invention. I'm currently having myself a TAS marathon and it turns out that very marking was present on the Filmation version of the ship.

--Alex

 

[lomitus]

Yes, the circular paneling on the saucer is a huge improvement.

Also, I feel I should correct an earlier statement I made, about the black band on the aft end of your engines being totally your invention. I'm currently having myself a TAS marathon and it turns out that very marking was present on the Filmation version of the ship.

--Alex

No sweat. Honestly, I'm not sure what originally inspire that bit on the back of the nacelles, other than my fascination/obsession with chrome (it's an old Hot Rodder thing I guess)...I really just wanted to add a few small bits of chrome here and there and that seemed like a good place, LOL!

Anyways, I finally have some animation tests going, so I should have something posted to my Youtube account in a day or two (give or take rendering the wrong camera again...wasted the whole freakin' night....ggrrrrrr).

 

[Starship]

Awesome model, I think it looks great. Changing the panel detailing on the saucer definitely made it look more finished.

-Ricky

What Ricky said!
Much better now.

 

[lomitus]

Alrighty, first and foremost, thank you to all those who have provided such great comments and some wonderful feedback during my little escapade here,,,I am truly grateful and sincerely hope ya'll will keep those comments coming! With that in mind, it's time for an update...

Alrighty, goes without saying that I've been working my butt off here, with a bit of KBO (for you Doctor Who fans), however I think I'm making some positive progress. In aprox 2 weeks since I've started this, I've gone from this...

to this...

I don't think I'm being too full of myself in suggesting that it's a pretty decent improvement. This latest still render is a combination of Maya Software and Mental Ray, with ambiant occlusion and depth passes as well, not to mention some tweaks in Photoshop (tweaks that I should be able to reproduce in Premiere when it comes time to render). Since the original still up there, I've also updated all the textures (obviously) and done a SERIOUS over-haul on the geometry of the model.

I still have A LOT of work to do...have quite a bit of research I need to do, still need to do some serious work with the lighting (particularly as I start adding other objects), need to start planning scenes/cuts/shots (beyond what's already bobbling around in my brain) and of course, I need to make some decisions about rendering pretty soon (quality vs. render times). The initial test animations have already turned up a couple of unexpected bugs as well...some have been corrected, some I still need to look into. Obviously it's much better than were I started, but the "look" still isn't quite what I'm looking for...yet. I think it does look pretty good "as is", but I know I can still do better.....

Anyways, again please feel free to keep those comments and suggestions coming...and again, my thanks to all my fellow Trekkies out there!

 

[lomitus]

Alrighty...been working hard the past few days, doing some trouble shooting and trying to work a few things out, so it's time for a couple of updates!

First, I have a new little chunk of test animation...in fact, this one is a "two-fer" (in more ways than one).

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This was rendered out yesterday, before I hit my morning epiphany, however once lighting and render corrections are made, the second test animation there could very well get used in the final production...I like the the shot and the animation a lot, so we'll have to see how it looks after it's cleaned up.


The second part of this update is a simple still...I just fired this off, so I haven't had time to setup a test animation with the new settings yet...

I do still have a fair bit of fine tuning to go, particularly with the lights, however I think we're getting a lot closer to the look I've been after. Also, while you can't really see them in this shot (not really sure you'll even see them in the final product), I have actually gone back and adjusted several details based on the reference shots of the actual model at the Smithsonian that I referred to yesterday in a separate post. After looking thru some 60 odd reference shots of the genuine model, there were just a couple of little niggles that were bothering me.


Anyways, comments, suggestions and critiques are, as always, quite welcome! Enjoy!

 

[lomitus]

err...I had to replace the image on Photobucket, so if that comes up as a broken link, here it is again (didn't see any option to edit the post with the new link)...sorry if this double posts...