CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Smoked Salmon]

Talked with my wife, who herself has started more than her share of 501C's for charitable fund raising and has supervised more than a few nonprofits, and not-for-profits over the years; plus I also spoke with the lawyer she used for filing the correct paperwork with state officials and the IRS, and both came to the same conclusion, Axanar's main problem lies in Ares Studios.

Sure the coffe sales are questionable, as are the "gifts" for donations, but rules for nonprofit/not-for-profit ventures are pretty loose in this regard. For example, as I mentioned earlier, if Hansa coffee was essentially donating the coffee and only charging their cost for the coffee, then giving the rest to Axanar as a donation, then techinically no one has made a "profit" and I suspect Axanar's lawyer would argue that in court. This would also apply toward the "perks" they give for donations. So the question then becomes, did Alec peters use the Star Trek license to make a profit... they will of course argue they did not.

Even paying one's self a salary (which looks really bad), as well payments to the professionals involved would be allowable under nonprofit guidelines. Most people would be shocked when they donate money to a charitable cause how little of each dollar goes toward that cause, and are instead absorbed into "administrative costs." Again, I'm sure that's something Axcanar's lawyer is going to argue.

However, where Axanar has ZERO leg to stand on in Ares Studio. Based on past statements by the crew it is clear the INTENT is to use the studio to generate revenue to create profit-making movies down the road. Between their "Sci-Fi Film Academy" and their option on David Gerrold novels it's pretty clear they plan to make money down the road. Also just buying the property, bulding on it, and rennovating it creates an issue because wouldn't that cause the value of the property to go up? Theorhetically a higher property value is profit... the only way around that issue that I can see if if Alec Peters, out of the goodness of his heart, donates the property to a charitable organization after he's done with it.

What I suspect Peters and comapny will try to do though is argue that Ares will continue to be not for profit and will only pour money they make back into future productions, and use further crowd funding to make their films. Basically Peters thinks he's found a giant loophole in the system and plans to use it to create a career for himself.

When CBS/Paramount first started allowing fan films under the simple guideline that it was permissable "as long as no one made a profit," I doubt, even in their wildest dreams, that they believed any production would be so bold and arrogant with the Star Trek license. Even "big dogs" like NV/PII and STC have run pretty tight ships and have been clear where donations go. Even the "perks" offered have all been related directly to the production (i.e., production photos, posters, scripts, etc.), and not vague, quasi-official looking merchandise that dances a super fine line between legitimate "perk" and licensed merchandise.

CBS/Paramount really was left with no choice but to file a suit.

Profit or not, there's still the IP infringement.

 

[The Transformed Man]

Why wonder about the timeframe of the new series? That really has no bearing at all on Axanar's infringement.

Scanning the complaint, the one direct reference to money that I see is:

Defendants have raised over $1 million so far to produce these works, including building out a studio and hiring
actors, set designers, and costume designers.

Look, if Axanar is permitted to do this it won't be the epitome of unlicensed Star Trek crowdfunding for very long - it will only be the beginning. If CBS permits it in this instance, why wouldn't Star Trek Continues, or New Voyages, or Farragut pull out all the stops? Letting Axanar proceed would amount to tacit permission from CBS to do just that, and CBS clearly understand that.

That was more of a stream of conciousness thought; that maybe CBS is getting a little more antsy as their new series might be set in that time frame.

But on the illegal use of the license I completely agree, and I'm not arguing that at all. All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit." The Axanar crowd is simply going to use the cover of not-for-profit state/Federal guidelines as a loophole.

They will fail miserably as I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on, especially in regards to Ares Studios.

EDIT: And sorry, I thought they purchased the building at some point, but who the lessor is is kind of important. If it's one of Peters' pals and he's discounting the rent heavily that's a big no-no too in not-for-profit/nonprofit land.

 

[oswriter]

The Transformed Man Ares Studio is rented not owned so the only person the installation of the floor, stage door etc would benefit in terms of property value is whoever they have rented it from.

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

The studio is a 15,000 square foot warehouse located at 28757 Industry Drive, Valencia, California 91355. You cannot get ownership information through online sources. Anyone want to take a field trip to the Los Angeles County's Assessor's office?

 

[oswriter]

Except.. Being a non-profit isnt as simple as uttering the words.

Legally there are not a non-profit so there is no defence there.

No, a 501c is primarily a definition set by the IRS that defines your tax status based on being a charitable organziation. But states have various rules for not-for-profit ventures, and many of these same guidelines apply to both, including executive compensation.

I guess we'd really need to know what paperwork has been filed with the State of California... the 501c filing is a bit of a joke since it's really nothing more than "fixing the barn door after the horses have come home."

And let's be clear: As far as we (the public) knows, Axanar has not filed for 501c3 status. They have not released any application to the IRS, as the Star Trek Continues folks did. Now, that doesn't mean Axanar won't make such a filing in the near future. But right now it's just Peters saying they plan to do something.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

They used Monies, raised from unlicensed use of CBS IP, to make real improvements to a leased structure, (which rent was paid using monies raised from unlicensed use of CBS IP) which, they have openly admitted, to planning to use for commercial ventures once Axanar was completed.

Go listen to Podcast#20... they spell it out all right there.

All CBS has to do is tell the court that no production - TV show or film, high budget or low, wastes time remodeling a production office if their goal is to make a film.

You come in, you set up your gear, you rehearse, you shoot, you clear out. Post is usually done elsewhere.

Peters is just uninformed enough about the usual operation of legitimate Hollywood productions that he is shooting himself in the dick here. How much did Ares Studios spend 'redoing the floors' again? And why?

Exactly. Why renovate office space? How necessary is that to the production unless they have long-term goals besides filming one "fan film" ... um independent production .. um "fan film" ... whatever they call it today?

 

[Tom]

All CBS has to do is tell the court that no production - TV show or film, high budget or low, wastes time remodeling a production office if their goal is to make a film.

You come in, you set up your gear, you rehearse, you shoot, you clear out. Post is usually done elsewhere.

Peters is just uninformed enough about the usual operation of legitimate Hollywood productions that he is shooting himself in the dick here. How much did Ares Studios spend 'redoing the floors' again? And why?

Well to be fair STNV and STC have studios that they continue to build up. But then again, they are an ongoing series. I suppose Alec may have wanted to make Axanar follow up films and or a ongoing series as well. So on this issue, really cant cite him for wanting to build up his own studio. Its just a part about using the fans money to do that, and of course, announcing that it will be a 'for profit' studio .

 

[Mudd]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

 

[Smoked Salmon]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

It's been suggested this is what New Voyages were told.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The Transformed Man Ares Studio is rented not owned so the only person the installation of the floor, stage door etc would benefit in terms of property value is whoever they have rented it from.

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

The studio is a 15,000 square foot warehouse located at 28757 Industry Drive, Valencia, California 91355. You cannot get ownership information through online sources. Anyone want to take a field trip to the Los Angeles County's Assessor's office?

I disagree...

Owned by INDUSTRY DRIVE LLC.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

The Transformed Man Ares Studio is rented not owned so the only person the installation of the floor, stage door etc would benefit in terms of property value is whoever they have rented it from.

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

The studio is a 15,000 square foot warehouse located at 28757 Industry Drive, Valencia, California 91355. You cannot get ownership information through online sources. Anyone want to take a field trip to the Los Angeles County's Assessor's office?

California has no land registry?

 

[Captain Atkin]

Oh, perhaps you mean this gem of a passage?





[Note: this is from a thread about Yorktown: A Time to Heal, a fan film which is still, today, nearly a year from it's completion and release as detailed by its producer.... which would put it out more than two years after Starship Exeter's "The Tressaurian Intersection" finally came out.]

And how many years ago was that post?

Just over two years ago, from Dec. 13, 2013.

Yeah, I did cringe a little when I first read that post on the Yorktown thread. I'm the admin of the Starship Exeter Facebook page, and I was well aware at the time that we would not be finished before "The Tressaurian Intersection".

 

[starburst]

I just noticed something interesting on one of the Red Omega (a.k.a. Alec Peters) posts that Karzak found. Here's a link to the original post:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=9978856&postcount=1014

Emphasis mine:

So basically, as far back as August 2014, Alec was surreptitiously throwing shade at his good buddy James Cawley for how Star Trek: Phase II was "spending their Kickstarter money".

Now that's friendship!

I didn't spot that when I first read through the screencaps, I would assume James Cawley moved past it as I can't imagine he wouldn't have seen it.

The Transformed Man Ares Studio is rented not owned so the only person the installation of the floor, stage door etc would benefit in terms of property value is whoever they have rented it from.

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

Thats a good question.

Yeah donor intent is not a real option on crowdfunding sites is it ( my missus is also in the non profit development world, and she just rolled her eyes on this train wreck)

I see that from their site that you have to donate to even be able to buy items from their store, so anything worth getting as a souvenir to this circus before it gets shut down?

I mean I do think the ship looks nice...

I wouldn't say its worth it, at this stage you would be thowing your money at something which by the looks of things won't move forward, I had been considering buying a model of the ship as I love Sean's design work but to do so at this point could just end up adding to the problems the model maker may face if his company ends up being named.

 

[oswriter]

Here's an image of the tax assessor's map for Ares Studios.

 

[oswriter]

So who is the lessor, that might be interesting to know. Do they have any ties to anyone on the production staff? That could cause a legal problem.

The studio is a 15,000 square foot warehouse located at 28757 Industry Drive, Valencia, California 91355. You cannot get ownership information through online sources. Anyone want to take a field trip to the Los Angeles County's Assessor's office?

California has no land registry?

They do but they won't disclose ownership information online. You have to actually contact the assessor and have them look it up for you. I can access property tax records, but again not the owner's names.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Adding together all the itemized salaries brings you to $70,386.57. The $48,032.41 are "miscellaneous" salaries that Axanar hasn't bothered to identify on this very transparent report.

Correct. A comment on Alec's cries of poverty and uncompensation for 60 hour work weeks and what not. Looking over the report it is difficult to see how that 38k went to anything but his personal living expenses. His travel was treated as a "business expense", promotional materials were also treated a business expense, all of the equipment and materials used in his day job were acquired by using donor funds, so there really isn't much else for that 38k to be spent on other than his personal expenses. It also doesn't take a genius to understand how easy it would be for Boomer the cat to get a portion of the $48k spent on "misc. salaries"
So, the long and short is that Mr. Peters hasn't exactly been a starving artist. He hasn't made a great living off of this project, but he has made a living, and one he is unlikely to want to give up.

Except.. Being a non-profit isnt as simple as uttering the words.

Legally there are not a non-profit so there is no defence there.

Exactly! This "well if Axanar were a non-profit than what they are doing is fine according to non-profit rules" is hokum. Axanar Productions is a for-profit corporation. Period.

 

[Mudd]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

It's been suggested this is what New Voyages were told.

Exactly. It's been suggested, secondhand, that someone at some point was told this and it's been inferred that there's some bright red line officially drawn here by someone at CBS in a decision-making capacity about such things. If this was said, who said it? What was their job at CBS? Who was it said to? When and where was it said? What was the exact wording?

Alec Peters claimed back around August, in his elliptical and vague way, to have had some reassuring discussions with "people from CBS" about his project - and when given the opportunity to comment, CBS representatives shot that down in no uncertain terms.

 

[The Transformed Man]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

Agreed. I really wish CBS had issued some official guidelines for these productions as it would have eliminated this. But then again, I don't think CBS ever envisioned a production crowdfunding over a million dollars.

My biggest concern is that crap rolls downhill, and it could sweep up other productions that HAVE BEEN playing by the rules. Ultimately Peters' Folly could be the death knell of a very creative outlet for fans, which would be a shame.

 

[oswriter]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

Agreed. I really wish CBS had issued some official guidelines for these productions as it would have eliminated this. But then again, I don't think CBS ever envisioned a production crowdfunding over a million dollars.

My biggest concern is that crap rolls downhill, and it could sweep up other productions that HAVE BEEN playing by the rules. Ultimately Peters' Folly could be the death knell of a very creative outlet for fans, which would be a shame.

But it is fair to ask CBS and Paramount why they allowed Axanar to dig itself into this deep of a whole before acting. I have yet to find a credible explanation for why they didn't put a stop to Peters the minute he announced Ares Studios.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Alec Peters claimed back around August, in his elliptical and vague way, to have had some reassuring discussions with "people from CBS" about his project - and when given the opportunity to comment, CBS representatives shot that down in no uncertain terms.

Oh indeed. By his own words he met them last August and they were concerned, refused to tell him what he could use and then either before or after issues a statement to the press saying they were against the project.

The arrogant so and so just carried on soliciting funds anyway. It's really quite disgraceful.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

All I'm saying is CBS did kind of open Pandora's Box by uttering the phrase "as long as you don't make a profit."

All right - but when, exactly, did someone in authority at CBS actually say explicitly to anyone "as long as you don't make a profit?"

Agreed. I really wish CBS had issued some official guidelines for these productions as it would have eliminated this. But then again, I don't think CBS ever envisioned a production crowdfunding over a million dollars.

My biggest concern is that crap rolls downhill, and it could sweep up other productions that HAVE BEEN playing by the rules. Ultimately Peters' Folly could be the death knell of a very creative outlet for fans, which would be a shame.

They haven't been playing by the rules. They have been infringing the IP. The correct terminology would be to say that have been tolerated.