If this case had to be settled by a volleyball game I think Alec would have a legitimate shot of winning.
Neil
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
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If this case had to be settled by a volleyball game I think Alec would have a legitimate shot of winning.
Neil
If that were the only item presented in the courtroom I'd say it's game-set-match right there.
Long time lurker - First time poster.
So, I have been following with great interest this story for the past few days, and I must share that I am quite simply stunned at the lack of professionalism shown by the Axanar team. I am frankly embarrassed that the Facebook pages of CBS and Paramount are spammed by these so-called fans who seem so completely out of touch with reality - or really, any sense of how one should behave when confronted with a lawsuit.
I can't figure out what sort of game they are playing, as I am fairly sure that insulting and trashing the corporations that currently own 'Star Trek' is not likely to cause a change of heart. If anything, I could see this juvenile behavior only making CBS and Paramount even more determined to punish the Axanar cult.
It is funny, too, as my first exposure to the story was via io9 and AVClub, both of which wrote articles that seemed rather sympathetic to Axanar. I suppose that was my gut instinct as well, as it did initially strike me as the big bad corporations trying to squash the dreams of the fans.
However, the way that Axanar Productions has handled themselves since the story broke has turned me against them! Even if they were in the right, I pretty much want them to fall, and fall hard.
Then I start to really look at the situation more closely, and it pretty much looks like an open and shut case. This is no fan film, by their own admission.
Here we are, days after the story broke, and just look at the quotes still showing on their indiegogo fundraising webpage:
"It is important to remember that what started out as a glorified fan film is now a fully professional production."
"Please note that we are a professional production."
"EVERYTHING costs more when you are a professional production and not a fan film."
I really don't see how they can be at all surprised for being sued since they blatantly say that they are not a fan film. Producing a "fully professional independent Star Trek film" most definitely violates copyright. Open and shut case, I would say.
So, I have been following with great interest this story for the past few days, and I must share that I am quite simply stunned at the lack of professionalism shown by the Axanar team. I am frankly embarrassed that the Facebook pages of CBS and Paramount are spammed by these so-called fans who seem so completely out of touch with reality - or really, any sense of how one should behave when confronted with a lawsuit.
I can't figure out what sort of game they are playing, as I am fairly sure that insulting and trashing the corporations that currently own 'Star Trek' is not likely to cause a change of heart. If anything, I could see this juvenile behavior only making CBS and Paramount even more determined to punish the Axanar cult.
It is funny, too, as my first exposure to the story was via io9 and AVClub, both of which wrote articles that seemed rather sympathetic to Axanar. I suppose that was my gut instinct as well, as it did initially strike me as the big bad corporations trying to squash the dreams of the fans.
However, the way that Axanar Productions has handled themselves since the story broke has turned me against them! Even if they were in the right, I pretty much want them to fall, and fall hard.
Then I start to really look at the situation more closely, and it pretty much looks like an open and shut case. This is no fan film, by their own admission.
Here we are, days after the story broke, and just look at the quotes still showing on their indiegogo fundraising webpage:
"It is important to remember that what started out as a glorified fan film is now a fully professional production."
"Please note that we are a professional production."
"EVERYTHING costs more when you are a professional production and not a fan film."
I really don't see how they can be at all surprised for being sued since they blatantly say that they are not a fan film. Producing a "fully professional independent Star Trek film" most definitely violates copyright. Open and shut case, I would say.
That smile isn't the smile of a friendly man, it's the smile of a shark before it tears into you. Even in his publicity photo, I already feel like I've lost my case, and I'm not even in this! Damn, that requires mass respect!
Yep. That cat won't even be safe in a settlement.
All this noise sounds like British complaints about how the Colonists cheated the proper rules of war; didn't play fair. I think MatthewD's implication is right that the corporations don't get the respect they used to. They don't earn it so well anymore either. Add to the mix that the growing attitude has been that everything is public domain.
It will be interesting to see if Kickstarter sends Alec Peters a 1099 for the income later this month.
Alec is batting a thousand, it seems.
If ever there were any doubt that he was taking advantage of fans just not being able to discern fact from fiction or that he so deftly navigates the space between, this should eliminate it.
That's the joke of it. It's not even really fraud. Everything's there in writing for any discerning person to read. He even warned in the pitches in clear language that one of the risks involved in donating was that "Star Trek" was a licensed property of CBS and they had the final say in any "Star Trek" venture. Of course, he also said he had dealt with CBS before and had the experience to deal with them this time.
He worked as a "Star Trek" archivist with CBS at one point. He really has no excuse for not knowing his stuff here. Alec is just feigning ignorance at this point.
I think you're right. What started out as a fan film has blossomed into a for-profit production company with salaries and merchandising tie-ins to boot while violating IP's. Of course CBS/Paramount is going to step in. In their shoes I would do the same.
What is a shame are the misguided Trekkies wearing lemming blinders following Alec Peters off a cliff.
I enjoy ST wishing all Trekkies the best.
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Hmmm. I don't see anything about his last business going bankrupt.
I've known Peters for a looong time and if there's one thing he CAN'T do is shut up. He's his own worst enemy.
Here's what a legal writer has to say about the situation:
http://wrathofdhanprops.blogspot.com/2016/01/david-gerrold-comes-to-bat-for-axanar.html
Any green tea blends. And anything with jasmine or hibiscus. Rooibos is good. Moroccan mint is always nice. And it's not herbal, but Earl Grey, of course.
And he's succeeding beyond his wildest dreams.
I think whether or not CBS destroys him will depend on whether or not they think his enthusiasm just simply led him to dig himself into a hole he couldn't get out of with the project, or this was a project all carefully calculated to take advantage of Trek fans who didn't like the Abrams movies and think CBS isn't a good caretaker of the franchise.
As far as the fans defending him and lashing out at CBS go, I don't think people are misguided, just ignorant. As I've gotten older, the shear ignorance of some otherwise intelligent people I've met has stopped amazing me. I've also stopped thinking they'll change. It's part of my transition through life from skeptic to cynic to curmudgeon.
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That writer has already been participating in this thread for the last couple of days (look for username oswriter) and has posted links to not only his response to Mr. Gerrold's remarks, but to other pieces relating to the current Axanar situation.
Thanks for the heads-up. My apologies – it's a very long thread!
The level of stupid in this article is staggering.
Here are a few choice quotes:
"Those 13,000 contributors have created salaries for actors of professional-grade quality as well as industry-standard technicians; they’ve built a studio, and there are a great amount of people involved."
"Apparently CBS seems to think that the best way to protect their legal property is to simply sue for damages; no guidance, no negotiation for licensing or even simple list of what to cut from the film. Now that "Axanar" has revealed itself to be a fully funded enterprise (no pun intended), sitting on top of a million dollars, CBS’s actions seem very similar to a large rat going after a smaller mouse’s piece of cheese.
I’m not defending Peters here; it is CBS’s intellectual property. He’s clearly making a film using someone else’s intellectual property as the source material. However, he’s not distributing it for sale (as the complaint alleges) and at the same time, CBS is committing a major public relations nightmare by trying to crush an exemplary Star Trek production that could be added to the Trek continuum."
"I don’t know if the side effects of the suit have been fully considered by CBS. Regardless of the legality of the situation, millions of fans have seen "Prelude to Axanar" and it has only whetted their appetites for a new Star Trek film that actually resonates what these fans want to see. Attacking "Axanar" can only serve to inflame those fans against CBS and potentially sour them against projects like the release of a planned pay-per-view Star Trek next year."
Furthermore, this is an organization that really hasn’t done very much with their own television franchise since "Star Trek: Enterprise" went off the air 10 years ago. They have effectively manufactured this vacuum themselves and as soon as one of the many fan-based film projects begins to start to look financially profitable, they make a “vigorous attempt to protect (their) intellectual property”? Without warning or a cease-and-desist order, this all smacks of shady machinations and simply will only serve to alienate 1.7 million viewers of "Prelude to Axanar" and 13,000 contributors to the "Axanar" major production. That money was given in trust to Peters to produce a film that the fans actually want to see. In essence, CBS is trying to take that money from the fans.
If CBS has a game plan behind their heavy-handed, intimidating tactics, could it be that it involves taking the production for their own and that this is simply the opening shot in an attempt to wrest creative control of the project? There’s a lot of this type of speculation flying around the Internet right now, and it seems to be a viable possibility. After all, with a damages suit, taking the money that is wrapped up in the material assets of the production would be the way to do it. However, taking the physical assets of the production doesn’t involve the creative direction.
In my opinion, the best course of action here seems to be negotiation. CBS can’t afford the negative press. They’ve got too much against them as it is: perceived mishandling of their own property, bullying aspect of a “David vs. Goliath” court case and an entire legion of vocal fans who would clearly welcome a more positive approach to handling the issue instead of a bitter and divisive legal spat.
If CBS is indisputably guilty of anything, it’s a lack of communication. Peters and "Axanar" have fans on their side because of a substantial amount of interaction with the fans. They have been involved with this endeavor from the very beginning, and because of their donations, take a great sense of ownership in the project. There is also the shared belief that Star Trek belongs to the fans. They have been patiently waiting for a new Star Trek production and the best that Paramount has come up with is the controversial reboot. Fans don’t feel that CBS listens to them enough."
"This suit is a knee-jerk reaction based on a lack of perception as to what is actually good for the franchise and demonstrates a lack of involvement and intention. As the caretakers of Gene Roddenberry’s vision, they have a responsibility to its integrity, its fans and its interests. Perhaps this is a time to embrace fan productions, work with them to ensure that the creativity is maintained instead of alienating them and the fans who have supported their efforts."
Neil
P.S. "There is also the shared belief that Star Trek belongs to the fans." Really? Really???
Here are a few choice quotes:
"Those 13,000 contributors have created salaries for actors of professional-grade quality as well as industry-standard technicians; they’ve built a studio, and there are a great amount of people involved."
"Apparently CBS seems to think that the best way to protect their legal property is to simply sue for damages; no guidance, no negotiation for licensing or even simple list of what to cut from the film. Now that "Axanar" has revealed itself to be a fully funded enterprise (no pun intended), sitting on top of a million dollars, CBS’s actions seem very similar to a large rat going after a smaller mouse’s piece of cheese.
I’m not defending Peters here; it is CBS’s intellectual property. He’s clearly making a film using someone else’s intellectual property as the source material. However, he’s not distributing it for sale (as the complaint alleges) and at the same time, CBS is committing a major public relations nightmare by trying to crush an exemplary Star Trek production that could be added to the Trek continuum."
"I don’t know if the side effects of the suit have been fully considered by CBS. Regardless of the legality of the situation, millions of fans have seen "Prelude to Axanar" and it has only whetted their appetites for a new Star Trek film that actually resonates what these fans want to see. Attacking "Axanar" can only serve to inflame those fans against CBS and potentially sour them against projects like the release of a planned pay-per-view Star Trek next year."
Furthermore, this is an organization that really hasn’t done very much with their own television franchise since "Star Trek: Enterprise" went off the air 10 years ago. They have effectively manufactured this vacuum themselves and as soon as one of the many fan-based film projects begins to start to look financially profitable, they make a “vigorous attempt to protect (their) intellectual property”? Without warning or a cease-and-desist order, this all smacks of shady machinations and simply will only serve to alienate 1.7 million viewers of "Prelude to Axanar" and 13,000 contributors to the "Axanar" major production. That money was given in trust to Peters to produce a film that the fans actually want to see. In essence, CBS is trying to take that money from the fans.
If CBS has a game plan behind their heavy-handed, intimidating tactics, could it be that it involves taking the production for their own and that this is simply the opening shot in an attempt to wrest creative control of the project? There’s a lot of this type of speculation flying around the Internet right now, and it seems to be a viable possibility. After all, with a damages suit, taking the money that is wrapped up in the material assets of the production would be the way to do it. However, taking the physical assets of the production doesn’t involve the creative direction.
In my opinion, the best course of action here seems to be negotiation. CBS can’t afford the negative press. They’ve got too much against them as it is: perceived mishandling of their own property, bullying aspect of a “David vs. Goliath” court case and an entire legion of vocal fans who would clearly welcome a more positive approach to handling the issue instead of a bitter and divisive legal spat.
If CBS is indisputably guilty of anything, it’s a lack of communication. Peters and "Axanar" have fans on their side because of a substantial amount of interaction with the fans. They have been involved with this endeavor from the very beginning, and because of their donations, take a great sense of ownership in the project. There is also the shared belief that Star Trek belongs to the fans. They have been patiently waiting for a new Star Trek production and the best that Paramount has come up with is the controversial reboot. Fans don’t feel that CBS listens to them enough."
"This suit is a knee-jerk reaction based on a lack of perception as to what is actually good for the franchise and demonstrates a lack of involvement and intention. As the caretakers of Gene Roddenberry’s vision, they have a responsibility to its integrity, its fans and its interests. Perhaps this is a time to embrace fan productions, work with them to ensure that the creativity is maintained instead of alienating them and the fans who have supported their efforts."
Neil
P.S. "There is also the shared belief that Star Trek belongs to the fans." Really? Really???
Wait, so Disney wanted Peters to direct the next Star Wars movie?
Technically, that doesn't mean anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Weird_Al"_Yankovic#Refused_parodies
Al asks the artists out of courtesy, but it's got nothing to do with the actual legal permissions, and all of Al's albums include credits for the referenced songs.
I find it funny it says nothing of funding the film....... Just the film makers.
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