CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I too was interested in Axanar, attracted by the cast and the production values, and I had hoped to one day see a final product, although not interested enough to donate I must hasten to add. I do believe though that I've had more fun watching this thread the past few days than I ever would have had with the film. It's my favourite trainwreck in recent months.

The best case scenario I can think of with this is that the eventual new TV series coming from CBS winds up bearing more than a passing resemblance to Axanar (i.e. CBS wind up making it themselves).

That I think is the crux of the matter, stated way back up-thread, but worth re-iterating. Putting aside the Axanar folly, and its crossing of the line. The rules of the game itself have changed for Paramount/CBS. The new TV series will premiere digitally in the US, on CBS' own download/streaming outlet. It's no longer a sense of legit Trek being on broadcast TV and cinema, while fan-films get to play on the Internet. The new series will be playing on the Internet. When fans type in Star Trek into their video search engines, CBS will want the new series not only at the top of the results, they'll also want no fan films listed in the results at all competing with their IP.

Axanar is low-hanging fruit, easy to set a legal precedent with. But I think the other fan films will find themselves 'influenced' by CBS/Paramount to tone down the professionalism, limit their reach. Fan films need to stay out of the IP holder's playground, and now they've bought their ball to the fan film playground as well, fan films will have to find a new place to play.

I can very well see fan films going the way of anime fansubs in the pre-Internet days of VHS. They'll have their public presence online, news about their latest episodes and the like, but when it comes to actually watching an episode, fans will have to donate the price of postage, and media, and wait for a DVD-R in the mail.

 

[BillJ]

Just for shits and giggles, for folks with a extra ticket price or a coupon for a freebie, by a ticket for Alec Peters or any of the faithful boycotters on Facebook and gifted them a ticket for Star Trek Beyond. Watch rage ensue.

Don't need to buy them a ticket. They are all going anyways. Even Peters, if CBS doesn't own all of his stuff by the time this is over.

 

[Squiggy]

Alec,

I'm going to buy you a ticket to Beyond and a year's subscription to CBS All Access. Even if you don't use it, I thought you'd like to know that someone has spent the money to make sure Star Trek gets seen.

LLAP,
Squiggy

That's a false comparison. Axanar simply doesn't have anything close to the marketing budget or media exposure that the movies have. Only fans with more than a passing interest in the franchise even know about it.

That doesn't make the comparison false. People are more interested in Star Trek Beyond for a number of reasons and that that film has a much bigger marketing budget would be one of the reasons why.

Axanar is hardly unique in this regard - one will find that fan films of Batman, Mad Max, Star Wars or whatever will elicit less interest than the works of the license holders regardless of their perceived quality.

It's false because the "fan" production has no possible way of having the same reach as the studio offering, therefore it is not on equal footing from the outset....as you yourself acknowledge.

Except when someone on CNN was discussing the new series a couple of months ago they used footage from Renegades.

So, lazy producing on CNN's part and a coup for the Renegades team...but also that there is confusion within the media over what is and what is not legit Trek.

As technology improves, more polished Trek gets easier to produce. As crowdfunding matures, it gets easier to get more money from more people to make a more polished Trek. Hell, these days everyone has a HD camera in their pockets.

Therein lies the problem.

Again, if you want to get together with a some friends and film yourself pretending to be in a shuttlecraft and stick it on Youtube for a dozen other friends to click on - I don't think CBS cares. Technically a violation but you're not even attempting to make money and it's so beneath the radar they won't ever see it.

BUT, have a store with elements they designed on there? Generate funding over a million dollars? Fap up your fans where they call your Trek the real Trek? Hell yeah they're going to put a stop to that. They'd be fools not too and you don't get to be the head of CBS legal by being an idiot.

If the Axanar people were smart (and nothing this week leads me to believe they are), they would squash and delete all talk of boycotting anything CBS or Paramount plans on their social media. You've already taken CBS's IP - that isn't even arguable - you don't want to promote taking money out of their pocket.

 

[OpenMaw]

Not sure what your asking with your question...

Wasn't really asking a specific question, just... I was interested to hear other peoples take on it. I was moved to silence by it.

Just for shits and giggles, for folks with a extra ticket price or a coupon for a freebie, by a ticket for Alec Peters or any of the faithful boycotters on Facebook and gifted them a ticket for Star Trek Beyond. Watch rage ensue.

Hahahaha...!

 

[Warped9]

I too was interested in Axanar, attracted by the cast and the production values, and I had hoped to one day see a final product, although not interested enough to donate I must hasten to add. I do believe though that I've had more fun watching this thread the past few days than I ever would have had with the film. It's my favourite trainwreck in recent months.

The best case scenario I can think of with this is that the eventual new TV series coming from CBS winds up bearing more than a passing resemblance to Axanar (i.e. CBS wind up making it themselves).

That I think is the crux of the matter, stated way back up-thread, but worth re-iterating. Putting aside the Axanar folly, and its crossing of the line. The rules of the game itself have changed for Paramount/CBS. The new TV series will premiere digitally in the US, on CBS' own download/streaming outlet. It's no longer a sense of legit Trek being on broadcast TV and cinema, while fan-films get to play on the Internet. The new series will be playing on the Internet. When fans type in Star Trek into their video search engines, CBS will want the new series not only at the top of the results, they'll also want no fan films listed in the results at all competing with their IP.

Axanar is low-hanging fruit, easy to set a legal precedent with. But I think the other fan films will find themselves 'influenced' by CBS/Paramount to tone down the professionalism, limit their reach. Fan films need to stay out of the IP holder's playground, and now they've bought their ball to the fan film playground as well, fan films will have to find a new place to play.

I can very well see fan films going the way of anime fansubs in the pre-Internet days of VHS. They'll have their public presence online, news about their latest episodes and the like, but when it comes to actually watching an episode, fans will have to donate the price of postage, and media, and wait for a DVD-R in the mail.

You raise an interesting point.

If a fan production is focused (primarily) on doing TOS centric stories and perhaps trying to faithfully recreate that distinct TOS look and vibe then no way will it be on par with whatever CBS/Paramount is putting out.

Firstly they are doing different kinds of stories, only the difference might not be so great depending on what is done with the 2017 series. But it's certainly different from what is being seen in the films. The look of the fan productions would continue to be distinctly different. 1960's f/x resources even at their very state-of-the-(then)-art will never look like 2017 f/x in terms of aesthetics and execution.


Axanar looked to be trying to bridge the differences. A lot of it looked like JJtrek and and they were aspiring to things that simply couldn't have been done back in the day. In some respects it was similar to the gripe some had with ENT as a prequel in that the ENT era hardware came across as seeming more advanced than what was seen in TOS.

For all their posturing Prelude To Axanar (while intriguing) did seem to promise a lot of pew-pew type action that some have criticized JJtrek for.

So in the grander scale of things how was Axanar that different from JJtrek?

 

[Woulfe]

Just for shits and giggles, for folks with a extra ticket price or a coupon for a freebie, by a ticket for Alec Peters or any of the faithful boycotters on Facebook and gifted them a ticket for Star Trek Beyond. Watch rage ensue.

Don't need to buy them a ticket. They are all going anyways. Even Peters, if CBS doesn't own all of his stuff by the time this is over.

Peters problem is in his tiny little mind he saw this whole thing as making a name for himself as a fan's fan, top dog of fan productions, you'd have to go to him, use his "studio" for your fan film, pay to use his "studio" so he can pocket the money, and so forth and so on.

He wanted to be THE go to guy, all like "Sure you can make your Fan Film at my studio" Head honcho of his own little empire, what he says goes, you better tow the company line, ect etc ect

In other words it was all to feed his ego, which is now getting shot at by much bigger fish who he can't deal with, he's now showing his true colors, and it's a train wreck in action.

A GLORIOUS TRAIN WRECK THE LIKES WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE...

Is it any wonder we're just sitting on the sidelines & munching popcorn as each new tidbit of insanity comes spewing out of the mouths of his followers as well as from his own mouth.

The guy really doesn't know when to shut his trap, does he?

If he really has his own lawyers they'd tell him long ago to not say anything that could be used against him in a court of law.

That ship sailed 2 days ago didn't it?

 

[dub]

Again, if you want to get together with a some friends and film yourself pretending to be in a shuttlecraft and stick it on Youtube for a dozen other friends to click on - I don't think CBS cares. Technically a violation but you're not even attempting to make money and it's so beneath the radar they won't ever see it.

BUT, have a store with elements they designed on there? Generate funding over a million dollars? Fap up your fans where they call your Trek the real Trek? Hell yeah they're going to put a stop to that. They'd be fools not too and you don't get to be the head of CBS legal by being an idiot.

If the Axanar people were smart (and nothing this week leads me to believe they are), they would squash and delete all talk of boycotting anything CBS or Paramount plans on their social media. You've already taken CBS's IP - that isn't even arguable - you don't want to promote taking money out of their pocket.

Yeah, plus the talk of this being a "movement" and saying prior to the lawsuit that they would not let CBS dictate to them what they could and could not do with Axanar...what choice did CBS have? Instead of putting the project on pause, showing some humility, being cooperative and honoring the franchise they clearly love, the leadership of Axanar have tweeted and hashtagged themselves into a very messy and expensive corner.

 

[tharpdevenport]

If anything, this whole ordeal is going to go, I believe, in the opposite direction the screaming Axa-cult posters are hoping for: it's going to teach CBS or any other studio to not allow these things to get so big, fester and attract the crazies. Clamp down sooner and make things more stringent when dealing with the fan productions.

I don't think in the long run it will hurt the fan productions (there there may be a "cooling off" period), but crowdfunded productiosn that could yeild wonderful results, as said in "Ghostbusters": "Yeah, it's a sign all right."


I think a two or three people need to be shoved in a room with Gordon Ramsay, the character Dr. Cox from "Scrubs", and Chuck Norris and given a very stern talking to that may involved repeated round-house kicks to the head.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Someone want to ... This?

Talifans...

Yup... To think Gene had enough forethought in the early 1960's to put provisions in his sale of the series to Desilu, to put in those kinds of provisions...... You might be a bit dilusional....

 

[Woulfe]

If anything, this whole ordeal is going to go, I believe, in the opposite direction the screaming Axa-cult posters are hoping for: it's going to teach CBS or any other studio to not allow these things to get so big, fester and attract the crazies. Clamp down sooner and make things more stringent when dealing with the fan productions.

I don't think in the long run it will hurt the fan productions (there there may be a "cooling off" period), but crowdfunded productiosn that could yeild wonderful results, as said in "Ghostbusters": "Yeah, it's a sign all right."


I think a two or three people need to be shoved in a room with Gordon Ramsay, the character Dr. Cox from "Scrubs", and Chuck Norris and given a very stern talking to that may involved repeated round-house kicks to the head.

I doubt that knocking heads about would cure them, they need professional help, like a visit to a shrink if you ask me.

They are living in a world were only "Axanar" is real Star Trek, everything else is make-believe land, tra la la de dah.

Welcome to the insanity.

 

[Karzak]

For completeness' sake, here's the original Axanar thread started lo those many years ago, featuring plenty of unhinged and irrational Alec Peters nonsense on full display (as "Loken" and "Linnear" and perhaps by the end even as "Red Omega."

The lunacy on display now is nothing new from this guy; he's never, ever been able to hold himself accountable for anything except unilateral adoration and now the proverbial shit is hitting the fan at warp speed.

LINK

 

[Allyn Gibson]

For completeness' sake, here's the original Axanar thread started lo those many years ago, featuring plenty of unhinged and irrational Alec Peters nonsense on full display (as "Loken" and "Linnear" and perhaps by the end even as "Red Omega."

The lunacy on display now is nothing new from this guy; he's never, ever been able to hold himself accountable for anything except unilateral adoration and now the proverbial shit is hitting the fan at warp speed.

LINK

I didn't realize Dave Galanter was involved in Axanar. He's a friend, and I sincerely hope he's not one of the unnamed John Doe defendants.

 

[captainkirk]

This part of the first post is gold-pressed-latinum!

It has a rather large budget for a fan film, all funded by me

 

[KennyB]

For completeness' sake, here's the original Axanar thread started lo those many years ago, featuring plenty of unhinged and irrational Alec Peters nonsense on full display (as "Loken" and "Linnear" and perhaps by the end even as "Red Omega."

That explains why on a few UK newspaper sites I've seen "Loken" preaching the Axanar gospel since this broke.

 

[Mudd]

I haven't seen any hatred at all.

A lot of the "I bet there was never going to be a movie! This was all a con! Has anyone even gotten one of these so-called 'patches?'" nonsense is pretty vindictive. I mean, jeeze, aren't the facts bad enough? We have to go and turn this into a grand criminal conspiracy instead of some people overreaching in response to unexpected success? It happens all the time. How many lottery winners have gone broke because they don't know how to handle all that money dropping on them at once? Hell, how many Kickstarters blew up and ended up in trouble because they over-promised on what they could do with the additional money or were over-extended by the large number of perks to send out?

You know why the movie hasn't come out yet?

One: Movies are hard. Always harder than you expect.

Two: Scope creep. They got a lot more money than they expected, so they decided to do more with it. If they stuck to the original plan and hadn't decided to keep going bigger and bigger, there probably never would've been a problem. Or, if there was, it would've been people wondering why they didn't plow the extra money they got into production, or where the "extra" money went if it was all soaked up by expenses they hadn't anticipated so the backers only got what was promised to be in a $100,000 fan film for $500,000.

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

What I never realized is the Prelude Budget went from being 20k to over 110k and even then they had to pull 10k from the Axanar Kickstarter....

 

[SeerSGB]

Someone want to ... This?

Talifans...

Yup... To think Gene had enough forethought in the early 1960's to put provisions in his sale of the series to Desilu, to put in those kinds of provisions...... You might be a bit dilusional....

Does anyone honestly believe he actually gave a fuck before he realized he had signed away the golden-goose and started building his public image as "The Great Bird Of The Galaxy". Frankly, the worship of Gene by some fans is L. Ron Hubbard levels of delusion.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Talifans...

Yup... To think Gene had enough forethought in the early 1960's to put provisions in his sale of the series to Desilu, to put in those kinds of provisions...... You might be a bit dilusional....

Does anyone honestly believe he actually gave a fuck before he realized he had signed away the golden-goose and sorted building his public image as "The Great Bird Of The Galaxy". Frankly, the worship of Gene by some fans is L. Ron Hubbard levels of delusion.

Very well said. But that goes for other genres too. The same level of worship surrounds Lucas and Star Wars..

 

[Squiggy]

The same level of worship surrounds Lucas and Star Wars..

Lucas took care of a lot of that with the prequels.

 

[Woulfe]

Yup... To think Gene had enough forethought in the early 1960's to put provisions in his sale of the series to Desilu, to put in those kinds of provisions...... You might be a bit dilusional....

Does anyone honestly believe he actually gave a fuck before he realized he had signed away the golden-goose and sorted building his public image as "The Great Bird Of The Galaxy". Frankly, the worship of Gene by some fans is L. Ron Hubbard levels of delusion.

Very well said. But that goes for other genres too. The same level of worship surrounds Lucas and Star Wars..

Lucas however was turned on by his own fans, he then sold it lock, stock & barrel to Disney.

The rest is now history as we all know.