Starship Size Argument™ thread

[Gonzo]

It makes me wonder how big those Klingon Warbirds seen during the KM test were. I'd guess much bigger than the Prime 'verse's D7 Battlecruisers... although the USS Kobayashi Maru didn't seem to have quite the standard Kelvin kitbash parts (and was based on Roger Sorwnsen's 283m long 1973 fan design)

In the original timeline the Klingons had two main classes of BOP, the Brel 137m and the Kvort 325m, the Kvort was actually pretty big and was bigger than the old D7 and the Ktinga, but the new BOP do look a lot bigger especially when you consider the size of the Enterprise now.

Seen a few rough size comparisons online that show the new BOP may be close to the same size as the new Enterprise.

No surprise the Klingons scaled up after losing a fleet to Nero's ship.

 

[drt]

Haven't read all of this thread, sorry if I am repeating thoughts or ideas:

I love the side torpedo launchers on the new Enterprise. For the build up to a battle sequence, it could have a sort of "run out the guns" feel to it, like naval battles of old.

It sorta seemed to me that the side ones could also be used for launching probes, etc.

 

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, I honestly didn't get the impression those were originally torpedo launchers.

It's a rather insane quantity.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Yeah, I honestly didn't get the impression those were originally torpedo launchers.

It's a rather insane quantity.

Well, World War-II era heavy cruisers were sometimes equipped with up to fifteen torpedo tubes capable of being fired on a broadside.

In more recent times, a typical guided missile cruiser has something like 120 vertical launch tubes, six torpedo tubes and eight harpoon launchers stacked on the deck (which are, apparently not reloadable).

Really, by any acceptable standard of military-style weapon systems, it makes NO sense for the Enterprise to have only a single torpedo tube. Even Archer's ship had at least six, and Columbia was quoted as having as many as fourteen.

 

[OpenMaw]

Really, by any acceptable standard of military-style weapon systems, it makes NO sense for the Enterprise to have only a single torpedo tube. Even Archer's ship had at least six, and Columbia was quoted as having as many as fourteen.

Well yeah, but just as a visual thing it doesn't seem quite right for the Enterprise to *literally* have broadsides. Not quite befitting the visual language of previous Trek.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Really, by any acceptable standard of military-style weapon systems, it makes NO sense for the Enterprise to have only a single torpedo tube. Even Archer's ship had at least six, and Columbia was quoted as having as many as fourteen.

Well yeah, but just as a visual thing it doesn't seem quite right for the Enterprise to *literally* have broadsides. Not quite befitting the visual language of previous Trek.

But it must fit with the underlying theme of possible impending wars. Admiral Marcus may be a crazy bosh'tet but he might have been onto something...

Makes me think of The Undiscovered Country in some ways. War could have happened in that movie but was averted again was the feeling I got..

 

[Anduril]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

Awesome cutaway except that it shows the saucer incorrectly. It's two decks high. It's shown in the movie when it's damaged by the Vengeance. Clearly this ship has two different scales. I've read through thirty something pages and I'm about to go crazy.

 

[Kemaiku]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

Awesome cutaway except that it shows the saucer incorrectly. It's two decks high. It's shown in the movie when it's damaged by the Vengeance. Clearly this ship has two different scales. I've read through thirty something pages and I'm about to go crazy.

Up to 5 levels are visible on closer inspection.

 

[Anduril]

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

Awesome cutaway except that it shows the saucer incorrectly. It's two decks high. It's shown in the movie when it's damaged by the Vengeance. Clearly this ship has two different scales. I've read through thirty something pages and I'm about to go crazy.

Up to 5 levels are visible on closer inspection.

We must be looking at different ships then.

 

[F. King Daniel]

There's a bit of a visual trick happening cos of the shape of the saucer. But yes, I agree 5 decks at the rim is too many, I worked out four of my cutaway.

 

[Kemaiku]

I said 5 levels, not 5 decks.

 

[DEWLine]

Lowest of the five tapers "upward" just before reaching the saucer's edge...?

 

[Gonzo]

All hail the Starship size argument thread.

The gift that keeps on giving even in 2016.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

All hail the Starship size argument thread.

The gift that keeps on giving even in 2016.

OMG this started back in 2013. Blimey.

Amused by this I am.

 

[Anduril]

All hail the Starship size argument thread.

The gift that keeps on giving even in 2016.

OMG this started back in 2013. Blimey.

Amused by this I am.

And people still don't know how big the ship is.

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[OpenMaw]

And people still don't know how big the ship is.

It's pretty gawd-dayum big.

 

[drt]

Your cutaway seems to be more accurate with regard to the placement of the brewery ("intermix chambers") and NIF ("warp core") elements as seen in STID, as Kirk and Scotty made their way through the brewery section, then seemed to enter the NIF section from the rear, since we saw the shot of shuttles falling in the shuttlebay right before they entered the warp core area. If transposed, then there shouldn't be any reason* to go through the brewery on the way to the core. However, the Wiley cutaway is better for having the intermix chambers eject straight up and out (as seen in ST'09).

I'm not sure of your scaling for the brewery and NIF locations, maybe there's a way to jam them a little closer together so there's room to do the ejection sequence, otherwise, perhaps we can go with the Wiley

* = I suppose an argument could be made that the Wiley cutaway is accurate and that the pattern of damage Enterprise took from Vengenace required a more circuitous route to the warp core, which could be partly supported by their entry from the aft.

 

[Kemaiku]

The 2013 game has the large metal tanks midway along the stardrive, accessed by the side port used in STID underwater, which going back from there, leads to the red floored water turbine system

Then to a huge cylindrical cavity where the intermix shaft lies horizontally, three warp cores face upwards to the open spine of the stardrive (where they're ejected from in the first movie). The main matter/antimatter core from STID and the brewery are behind or probably actually below that nearer the belly of the drive section, then the shuttlebay.

Needs work, but it's more canon than fan cutaways.

 

[Galileo7]

... but it's more canon than fan cutaways.

Agree.
I wonder if a canon JJ Abrams Star Trek films Starfleet Technical Manual book will ever get published with a canon 1701 blueprints.