Starship Size Argument™ thread

[publiusr]

That's a pretty cool name.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Even the most hardcore superfans use the wrong name, sometimes.

How are you a hardcore superfan if you don't know that Riker is not on this Enterprise, and Jim Kirk has no will to fire at him?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I would have accepted the nuEnterprise under water if it was a last desperate attempt in the finale of the film, not something casual in the opening teaser. Where it would have been made clear that it is insane, absolutely irregular and nearly impossible.

The Vengeance chases the Enterprise and Kirk decides to hide the ship on a planet under water, where he thinks Khan/Marcus would never look for a starship, until the warp engines or whatever are repaired. When it's time, the Enterprise rises from the waters to make a surprise attack.

Well Scotty does lampshade the seen for us.

But it had no reason to be there at all. And no consequences for the ship either. Only Scotty saying one line about it. The ship was just there under water, for a cool visual effects shot, and that was it.

Having to hide the ship under water as part of the climax, because there was no other possibility to save the ship and everyone aboard, that would have made it an essential part of the story, and not just a "it's there to look cool, but have Scotty make a tiny mention about it, in case people have a problem with it" thing.

I didn't mind that scene, I took it for what it was and enjoyed the movie. But afterwards when it was all over I did have questions, lots of questions the most important being how the hell do you bring the Enterprise in and slow it down enough to make a landing? On land I can maybe see it happening but how did they manage a landing underwater?

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

As I understand it, just about everything fits with a scale around 725 meters. IIRC one of the concept arts for STiD shows the Enterprise, the Vengeance, and the Golden Gate Bridge, and they bumped the size up to 731 meters for the Enterprise.

The only interior set that's really too big is the shuttlebay, which was built to 1200m scale IIRC.

The core itself is pretty big, much bigger than what we've seen in other depictions, but I don't think it's so big that it couldn't fit in the Engineering Hull. It might be a snug fit though with everything surrounding it though.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

As I understand it, just about everything fits with a scale around 725 meters. IIRC one of the concept arts for STiD shows the Enterprise, the Vengeance, and the Golden Gate Bridge, and they bumped the size up to 731 meters for the Enterprise.

The only interior set that's really too big is the shuttlebay, which was built to 1200m scale IIRC.

The core itself is pretty big, much bigger than what we've seen in other depictions, but I don't think it's so big that it couldn't fit in the Engineering Hull. It might be a snug fit though with everything surrounding it though.

But it never looked like a snug fit as there's plenty of room for cranes, girders, and beams and torpedoes to be hung and moved around the place.

Mind you I did like the torpedo launchers being on the side of the ship, and there was more then 2 of them, I counted four or 5 in a row.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

As I understand it, just about everything fits with a scale around 725 meters. IIRC one of the concept arts for STiD shows the Enterprise, the Vengeance, and the Golden Gate Bridge, and they bumped the size up to 731 meters for the Enterprise.

The only interior set that's really too big is the shuttlebay, which was built to 1200m scale IIRC.

The core itself is pretty big, much bigger than what we've seen in other depictions, but I don't think it's so big that it couldn't fit in the Engineering Hull. It might be a snug fit though with everything surrounding it though.

But it never looked like a snug fit as there's plenty of room for cranes, girders, and beams and torpedoes to be hung and moved around the place.

Mind you I did like the torpedo launchers being on the side of the ship, and there was more then 2 of them, I counted four or 5 in a row.

That's more what I meant. You've got the area for the core itself, and it might be a little packed in between everything else.

The torpedo launchers aren't in exactly the same place however. If I remember they were close to the core, but in the more open area near the shuttle.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

 

[Woulfe]

^ That is a BIG ship ^

The Vengance is even bigger, and we didn't get to see every part of the Vengance in the film, as she was trashed....

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

That does seem like it would all fit .... Bloody big ship alright.

But why do the fans have to explain everything?

I wish there was some semi official text to refer too like the good old days with the TNG Technical manual which was filled with all kinds of treknobabble and explanations.

 

[Firebird]

But why do the fans have to explain everything?

Is this your first time in the Star Trek fandom?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Mind you I did like the torpedo launchers being on the side of the ship, and there was more then 2 of them, I counted four or 5 in a row.

Counting from the tubes visible on the INSIDE of the weapons bay, there are at least ten on each side of the ship. The weapons bay extends through additional bulkhead space even though we can't see how many tubes are there, so I there's a possibility of another five tubes on that side making fifteen on a side, 30 altogether.

The way those tubes are loaded, it seems to me like the loading of the torpedo tubes is something that is done at battle stations and then the loaders and magazines are secured while the ship is in combat. This way, the ship has 30 torpedoes ready to launch and doesn't have to worry about the load mechanisms being disabled due to battle damage, or about the torpedo magazines being hit by enemy fire (they're stored and shielded in an armored case deep inside the ship).

I see Michael Wiley came to roughly the same conclusion in his (excellent) diagram.

 

[M'Sharak]

But why do the fans have to explain everything?

Since when has everything ever been explained?

And why would anyone want that?

 

[martok2112]

Haven't read all of this thread, sorry if I am repeating thoughts or ideas:

I love the side torpedo launchers on the new Enterprise. For the build up to a battle sequence, it could have a sort of "run out the guns" feel to it, like naval battles of old.

 

[shapeshifter]

I agree.

But how do all those cannons fit in?/!!1

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

I can't find it, but I really liked the cutaway that you did King Daniel Beyond with a four deck saucer, and the warp core further back.

 

[Belz...]

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

Did.... did he put a Delorean in the cargo hold?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

Did.... did he put a Delorean in the cargo hold?

Of course he did. Where else will he find enough runway to get up to 88mph?

 

[DEWLine]

"Broadsides" now being a capability for this version of the Enterprise. Writers, designers and VFX footage-producers finally catching up on this point.

Liking Wiley's five-deck-tall "edge" of the saucer as well.

Also noting those rows of drums on their sides in the forward upper secondary hull. Uhura's station at the start of ST XI?

 

[Gonzo]

I'm jumping right into this thread and wondering, well that there's been so much discussion about the exterior ship scales but what about interior scales?

Every time I watch the 2009 movie and Into Darkness from 2013 I just can't imagine that everything we see on screen fits inside that secondary hull.. That huge reactor in Into Darkness and everything around it. Does that really fit inside that hull shape? And the bit Kirk climbs up inside where he kicks the fusion core into place. It just looked ridiculously big.

Does this awesome fan-made cutaway of the Enterprise help?

http://www.michaelwileyart.com/portfolio/newenterprisecutaway.htm

Now that is a ship that is big enough for a 5 year mission.

First thing I would do is make the centre area of the saucer section into a big nonstop waterslide.

The dome at the top would be used to cover the captains jacuzzi, bubblez by starlight plus Alice Eve = Winning.