Kylo/***'s Conflict

[Tulin]

So we're all intensely familiar with the "I will finish what you started" scene between Kylo and Vader's helmet.

What BLEW me away was the extra line added in with Ben pleading for help from his grandfather as he felt the pull of the light side.

What a BRILLIANT inversion from the OT - instead of a character feeling the pull from the Dark side, we have Ben struggling with not wanting to turn back to the Good.

And then we cut to the scene with Han and, I don't know Adam Driver from shit, except that he is in something called "Two Broke Girls" or something but his acting was FANTASTIC!!!! I mean, I KNEW he was going to kill Han but I STILL thought, MAYBE he's going to go back with his father - his acting made me ACHE that he WOULD go back with his father.

When he killed Han, yes, I was gutted, but I was also gutted for the Ben that is inside.

BRILLIANT writing and incredible acting!

 

[Taylirious]

Calm down.

 

[Tulin]

Excuse me?

Can you please offer something more constructive, rather than trolling.

 

[Taylirious]

Much of a movie that most people haven't seen yet can fit into other threads with spoilers? I accept my troll though.

 

[DWF]

I'm not so sure about it being great that a character wants to be evil. Of course if he turns to the good side in Ep. IX we;ll have the same kind of ending we got in ROTJ.

 

[Tulin]

It's not that he wants to be bad, it's that he OPENLY admits he feels the pull of the Light Side.

It's funny but I was speaking with a friend of mine in Arkansas this morning and he asked me if there's any shit in this film like Sebulba - why he mentioned Sebulba, I don't know but I immediately thought of something. After Sebulba sabotages Anakin's podracer, he LITERALLY twirls his moustache.

WTF?

Compare that to Ben/Kylo and his dramatic inner conflict and turmoil. There's NO comparison between where the childish PT was pitched and where the ST is pitched!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes it is interesting that he feels the pull of the light side and that he uses the same language that we normally associate with people speaking of being seduced into evil.

What is it exactly that he feels.. I think it might be as simple as rest. Peace. Not having to work so very very hard for power and control and dominance of everything and everyone. Probably the dark side tells him this is laziness. That it is giving up.

 

[DWF]

Yes it is interesting that he feels the pull of the light side and that he uses the same language that we normally associate with people speaking of being seduced into evil.

Amakin was seduced by the dark side even Obi-Wan said as much and in the end he turned back to the good side. Being seduced means that there's a part of you that wants it. Being good or bad is still a choice, it's not like Kylo has no choice to be evil, he can be good if wants to.

 

[Kor]

Kylo is off his rocker. Doesn't he realize Vader turned back to the light in the end and was redeemed?

As for mustache-twirling villains, try watching some of 1930s serials that Star Wars is supposed to be based on. You'll see that it fits just fine.

Kor

 

[ConRefit79]

People like to say Anakin turned back to the good side, but did he? He did the right thing in the end. But once again the motivations were selfish. Not because it was the right thing to do.

As for Kylo, although Vader never voices it, we know that Luke claims he feels conflict in Vader. Battle between the dark and light.So I don't know how this is new.

 

[Kor]

Since Obi-wan and Yoda's Force ghosts apparently welcomed Anakin into their company, I think it's safe to say he had turned back to the light for real.

And the conflict itself isn't the thing that's new. It's the reversal of the character believing or "knowing" that the Dark Side is the correct path, and wanting help to not be "seduced" by the Light Side.

Kor

 

[DWF]

People like to say Anakin turned back to the good side, but did he? He did the right thing in the end. But once again the motivations were selfish. Not because it was the right thing to do.

As for Kylo, although Vader never voices it, we know that Luke claims he feels conflict in Vader. Battle between the dark and light.So I don't know how this is new.

Anakin gave his life to save his son, I'd hard ly call that selfish at all.

 

[ConRefit79]

Anakin gave his life to save his son, I'd hard ly call that selfish at all.

It is if you go by the what the PT & OT establishes concerning Jedi and possession. Do you Think Vader would have done the same had it not been his son?

 

[DWF]

Anakin gave his life to save his son, I'd hard ly call that selfish at all.

It is if you go by the what the PT & OT establishes concerning Jedi and possession. Do you Think Vader would have done the same had it not been his son?

Children aren't possessions and Anakin also said he believes in unconditional love. And Luke was his son and he failed to killed him before just as Luke had said. If Ben wasn't Han son don't think he would've tried to kill him on that catwalk?

 

[Relayer1]

I don't know Adam Driver from shit, except that he is in something called "Two Broke Girls" or something but his acting was FANTASTIC!!!! I mean, I KNEW he was going to kill Han but I STILL thought, MAYBE he's going to go back with his father - his acting made me ACHE that he WOULD go back with his father.

When he killed Han, yes, I was gutted, but I was also gutted for the Ben that is inside.

BRILLIANT writing and incredible acting!

I don't have a problem with the character, but I thought Adam Driver was very poor. I don't think he looked right at all for Han and Leia's child, but that would have been O.K. if he had the acting chops.

He just didn't carry it. There was no depth, no menace and he came across as petulant rather than conflicted. I get that he's going to be crucial to the rest of the trilogy - I hope he raises his game...

 

[MacLeod]

I don't know Adam Driver from shit, except that he is in something called "Two Broke Girls" or something but his acting was FANTASTIC!!!! I mean, I KNEW he was going to kill Han but I STILL thought, MAYBE he's going to go back with his father - his acting made me ACHE that he WOULD go back with his father.

When he killed Han, yes, I was gutted, but I was also gutted for the Ben that is inside.

BRILLIANT writing and incredible acting!

I don't have a problem with the character, but I thought Adam Driver was very poor. I don't think he looked right at all for Han and Leia's child, but that would have been O.K. if he had the acting chops.

He just didn't carry it. There was no depth, no menace and he came across as petulant rather than conflicted. I get that he's going to be crucial to the rest of the trilogy - I hope he raises his game...

I think he was better when he had the mask on.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I think he was better when he had the mask on.

+10

 

[BillJ]

Driver definitely felt like the weak link in the movie.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I don't know Adam Driver from shit, except that he is in something called "Two Broke Girls" or something but his acting was FANTASTIC!!!! I mean, I KNEW he was going to kill Han but I STILL thought, MAYBE he's going to go back with his father - his acting made me ACHE that he WOULD go back with his father.

When he killed Han, yes, I was gutted, but I was also gutted for the Ben that is inside.

BRILLIANT writing and incredible acting!

I don't have a problem with the character, but I thought Adam Driver was very poor. I don't think he looked right at all for Han and Leia's child, but that would have been O.K. if he had the acting chops.

He just didn't carry it. There was no depth, no menace and he came across as petulant rather than conflicted. I get that he's going to be crucial to the rest of the trilogy - I hope he raises his game...

I think he was better when he had the mask on.

I was just about to say the same thing, he was a better Kylo Ren than Ben Solo.

 

[Relayer1]

I was just about to say the same thing, he was a better Kylo Ren than Ben Skywalker.

True...