Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[Michael]

A bit off-topic, but still staying on the issue of sexuality. How about a pedophile crew member? Could make for an interesting character, and something that hasn't been done too much.

A “bit” off-topic? Sorry, but considering the history of anti-gay idiots bringing up pedophilia in discussions about homosexuals and equating it with homosexuality, I find your question in rather bad taste. And somehow I have a hard time believing that someone could do that accidently.

 

[Amaris]

TNG had a gender-fluid guest character, and DS9 followed that up with a gender-fluid regular character. Enterprise had a polygamist character. I don't think you're being fair.

It was all a little tentative though. TOS was much more aggressive in its representation of racial harmony and pluralism. The follow up shows dabbled, touched-on and gently winked at otherness but didn't show any meaningful conviction. Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

I would guess Garak, he showed interest in Bashir and later in Tora Ziyal...

Yes, this. I generally assumed Garak was pansexual. It's such a shame they snuffed that out, too. If I recall correctly, Andy Robinson was really wanting to push that angle. It would have been very intriguing, I think, for DS9 to have allowed it, but they didn't. *sigh*

 

[eyeresist]

I never thought of Garak as sexual at all. If he was, sex would be just another tool of manipulation.

 

[Amaris]

I never thought of Garak as sexual at all. If he was, sex would be just another tool of manipulation.

Pansexual is an orientation. You don't have to have sex to be pansexual (believe me, as a pansexual with my sexual history, you don't need to have sex to be pansexual *sigh*). That said, Andrew Robinson did start out playing Garak as more sexually inclusive:

"I loved the man's absolute fearlessness about presenting himself to an attractive human being. The fact that the attractive human being is a man (Bashir) doesn't make any difference to him". Robinson said this portrayal was later toned down due to a lack of writer support.

You can read the "Tailor Made" interview with Amazon.co.uk here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/53485/

 

[eyeresist]

I never thought of Garak as sexual at all. If he was, sex would be just another tool of manipulation.

Pansexual is an orientation. You don't have to have sex to be pansexual

No, I mean I never thought he was interested in anyone sexually or had any sexual urges.

 

[hux]

It was all a little tentative though. TOS was much more aggressive in its representation of racial harmony and pluralism. The follow up shows dabbled, touched-on and gently winked at otherness but didn't show any meaningful conviction. Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

I would guess Garak, he showed interest in Bashir and later in Tora Ziyal...

Yes, this. I generally assumed Garak was pansexual. It's such a shame they snuffed that out, too. If I recall correctly, Andy Robinson was really wanting to push that angle. It would have been very intriguing, I think, for DS9 to have allowed it, but they didn't. *sigh*

USS Triumphant mentioned a gender-fluid character though. I'm still trying to work out who that is (unless by gender-fluid, they simply meant bisexual).

At first I thought it could be Odo because he literally is capable of being gender-fluid but Odo makes it clear that he identifies as male and what's more, as heterosexual. Why the founders would have male or female appearance is anyone's guess.

 

[RAMA]

I don't see the point in making an obvious LGBT character unless there's a reason in the story. Reason? Well if you're going to be diverse, different races/species are often pretty obvious but including a LGBT character would have to be verbal, since they don't have to be visually obvious.

 

[JoeZhang]

I don't see the point in making an obvious LGBT character unless there's a reason in the story. Reason? Well if you're going to be diverse, different races/species are often pretty obvious but including a LGBT character would have to be verbal, since they don't have to be visually obvious.

How is a character obviously hetrosexual?

 

[King Bob!]

I don't see the point in making an obvious LGBT character unless there's a reason in the story. Reason? Well if you're going to be diverse, different races/species are often pretty obvious but including a LGBT character would have to be verbal, since they don't have to be visually obvious.

How is a character obviously hetrosexual?

By who they have relationships with, same as a homosexual or bisexual characters. So, we'd still have the visual cues.

 

[King Bob!]

I don't see the point in making an obvious LGBT character unless there's a reason in the story.

Good thing they didn't apply that standard in the 1960's.

 

[Trekkin]

A bit of a personal axe to grind, but I'd like a bisexual character. We're not so much under-represented on television as horribly represented - apparently only useful for titillation, a punch line, or to flat-out 'show' that bisexuals don't really exist (we're just confused or experimenting you see. Seriously, fuck Ryan Murphy.) Trans people are in a similar (if not worse) position. Trying to adrdress those stereotypes would be nice from a franchise that sells itself as progressive and for the thinking audience.

Genuinely asexual characters are also a rarity. Not 'not interested in sex' characters, but full-on 'doesn't feel sexual attraction at all.' Data was close, but even he didn't really count.

As for how to show it without 'derailing the plot', just do it the same way Trek's always handled relationships for its various characters. Don't comment on the sexuality or gender of those involved, just show the relationship.

 

[USS Triumphant]

A bit off-topic, but still staying on the issue of sexuality. How about a pedophile crew member? Could make for an interesting character, and something that hasn't been done too much.

A “bit” off-topic? Sorry, but considering the history of anti-gay idiots bringing up pedophilia in discussions about homosexuals and equating it with homosexuality, I find your question in rather bad taste. And somehow I have a hard time believing that someone could do that accidently.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I didn't really take it that way. I'm aware of the nasty and totally imaginary connections that are sometimes drawn between homosexuality and pedophilia, but setting that aside, let's face it: pedophilia IS a sexual orientation, in the same sense that stealing is a method of acquiring things - they aren't *morally acceptable* types of those classifications to act on, but they still belong in those overall classifications. And no, they aren't connected to LGBT people, but as I mentioned previously, I do see how one could be an interesting character. If it wasn't for the fact that it would almost certainly kill the show by calls, emails, and social media BS from people who wouldn't bother to see how the subject was actually being handled.

Seriously, fuck Ryan Murphy

Word. And for more reasons than just the one you cited.

USS Triumphant mentioned a gender-fluid character though. I'm still trying to work out who that is (unless by gender-fluid, they simply meant bisexual).

Even after I directly said, a couple of pages ago?:

I actually was talking about Dax. Not Jadzia Dax or Ezri Dax. Just Dax. The symbiont. Similarly, for TNG I was talking about the symbiont in Odan - but it occurred to me after that I could have been talking about more than just Odan: Lal, for instance - at least briefly.

Sorry not to have cleared this up sooner, but I was enjoying the Garak assumption and wanted to see a little more of where that would go before I chimed in.

 

[hux]

Even after I directly said, a couple of pages ago?:

Ah right, didn't see that.

Yeah Jadzia definitely isn't gender-fluid at all.

 

[Squiggy]

Why? Trek is suppose to be an optimistic view of the future.

For the dramatic opportunities it could provide

Yeah... I don't see that happening.

It would also require kids on the ship, which pretty much everyone agrees is a late 80s mistake.

Even if there was a chance for Ensign Creepy Ricky to diddle a kid, they'd get found out (future, DNA et al) and get locked up in the brig until the next Starbase. No debate. It's a pretty universal concept that pedos are horrible.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Even after I directly said, a couple of pages ago?:

Ah right, didn't see that.

Yeah Jadzia definitely isn't gender-fluid at all.

Which is why I specified the symbiont.

 

[USS Triumphant]

It's a pretty universal concept that pedos are horrible.

Pedos who act on it are horrible. But there are people with those impulses who struggle with them without acting on them, and they're still "pedophiles" unless you can tell me a better name for them.

Like I said, it could be an interesting subject that a show could put a spotlight on for discussion. It's also not going to happen, because society largely isn't ready to have that discussion in any way that goes beyond "kill the sickos".

 

[Ryan8bit]

A bit of a personal axe to grind, but I'd like a bisexual character. We're not so much under-represented on television as horribly represented - apparently only useful for titillation, a punch line, or to flat-out 'show' that bisexuals don't really exist (we're just confused or experimenting you see. Seriously, fuck Ryan Murphy.) Trans people are in a similar (if not worse) position. Trying to adrdress those stereotypes would be nice from a franchise that sells itself as progressive and for the thinking audience.

I think a bisexual character would be the most difficult to portray. Not just because it would be hard to write it without the cliches, but because a good portion of the audience may be like those who say they are confused or experimenting. And bisexuals don't get flak from just straight people, either. It's difficult for a lot of people who think in simple binaries about lots of things, perhaps even some who have bisexual feelings, but stick to one particular side because it's expected of them.

 

[T'Girl]

... but including a LGBT character would have to be verbal, since they don't have to be visually obvious.

Not necessarily, it could be brought to the audience's awareness thought a situation, rather than something which was said.

Visual.

 

[hux]

Which is why I specified the symbiont.

But the symbiont isn't gender-fluid either. It's the host that determines gender (and even sexuality it seems). Plus, in the context of a discussion about LGBT representations, a little sexless slug is hardly a win.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Plus, in the context of a discussion about LGBT representations, a little sexless slug is hardly a win.

This is body shaming, hux. Tsk tsk.