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"Face the Raven" Grade and Discussion Thread

Grade "Face the Raven"?

  • Souffle girl

    Votes: 36 35.6%
  • The Impossible Girl

    Votes: 34 33.7%
  • Good

    Votes: 19 18.8%
  • Decent

    Votes: 7 6.9%
  • Rubbish

    Votes: 5 5.0%

  • Total voters
    101
  • Poll closed .
But even worse, despite the fact the raven is called upon with the ending of the countdown, can track someone down regardless of where in space or time they travel, and can even pass through walls and other solid objects, it must decide to take the scenic route to give Clara one really long and drawn out good-bye monologue. Otherwise why else does it take so long to find someone who is just down the street from it?

I know Moffat didn't write this episode (or at least isn't credited) but I'm pretty sure he must have had a hand in Clara's death scene since it's him all over. Seriously, why does the guy write key moments of the show as such talky affairs where the characters deliver minutes-long monologues talking about what's about to happen rather than just showing the deed happening? This is one of the worse offenders, as this is the death scene of the show's second lead, a character the audience has been attached to for nearly three years. We should be sad at this moment, perhaps, if written properly, we might even feel the need to cry, or at least mopey as though we're losing a friend. I felt none of this during Clara's death scene and actually screamed "get on with it!" at my TV.

I think it was an editing issue, not a writing issue. I had no problem with the talky part, aside from the editing that already showed the raven flying around during the monologue. In this case the editing made it appear that the raven started flying before the counter hit zero. It wouldn't have been a problem except that they had already established the raven process earlier in the episode. They also didn't need to show Clara starting to scream from 3 different angles, even that process was drawn out from what was established earlier.

I think they could have made it work if they had tightened up the editing, and reworked the sound so you could actually hear her screaming.

The editing certainly didn't help, but I still maintain my complaint about the scene basically being a five minute monologue about Clara dying before Clara goes ahead and dies. These monologues are a huge problem with Moffat's key episodes, everyone spends more time talking about what has to happen instead of actually doing what needs to happen. Take for example. Name of the Doctor, Clara spends exactly two and a half minutes delivering a monologue about entering the Doctor's timestream before finally entering the timestream. And don't even get me started on Death in Heaven which is so drawn out and talky to the point the climax is four characters delivering monologues. Moffat seems to need a reminder that television is a visual medium, meaning it works better to actually see people doing things rather than hearing them talk about doing things.

I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but it seems that Clara is the first full-time companion from modern-day Earth to die in the entire run of Doctor Who (new and old).

The only other full-time companion I can think of who died was Adric, in the Fifth Doctor era, but although he was human, he wasn't from Earth.

Depends on you definition of companion and death

Jack died, lots
River died, including post regeneration in the library
Rory died/wiped from existence
Kylie died
Clara died in the snowmen and dalek-clara
Mars woman died
Donna died in turn left
Danny pink died

Other unimpressive fates awaited Donna and dalek-head

Slugboy's criteria was full-time companion from modern day Earth.

Jack is a gray area. Although he doesn't originate from modern times, he has spent enough time in the modern day. Regardless, only six of his many deaths were in service to the Doctor, and even then, does he really qualify as a "full time" companion?
River is not from modern day, nor was she a full time companion.
I'll give you Rory.
Astrid wasn't from Earth, nor was she full time.
Neither Snowmen Clara nor Dalek Clara were from modern times.
Adelaide Brooke is another gray area. Though we see her some decades in the future, we know she grew up in modern times. Still, she wasn't a full time companion.
Donna's death in Turn Left was immediately undone, but I'll reluctantly concede the point.
Danny Pink wasn't a companion at all.

Why are people spoiling the season finale in here? I was trying to stay spoiler free.

No one in this thread has revealed anything that hasn't already been revealed by the BBC, Moffat, Capaldi or Coleman.

BTW, if you're this jittery about spoilers for the finale, stay away from the current issue of DWM. It's cover image is literally taken from the finale's final scene.
 
Yeah, I was hoping her death would at least be shocking.

Seriously, I pretty much believe she shouldn't have come back for this series. Last Christmas's fate for her was soooooo much better.
 
So we are stuck in a room with a stasis chamber, a human who cannot be killed and an alien who when he dies can regenerate and no one can figure out how to save Clara? The least the writer could have done was give us reasons why none of those would have worked. Ah well, I loved the trap street and its aliens and look forward to next week.
 
I'm not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but it seems that Clara is the first full-time companion from modern-day Earth to die in the entire run of Doctor Who (new and old).

Depends on you definition of companion and death

Jack died, lots
River died, including post regeneration in the library
Rory died/wiped from existence
Kylie died
Clara died in the snowmen and dalek-clara
Mars woman died
Donna died in turn left
Danny pink died

I did specify "full-time companion from modern-day Earth" so that eliminates Jack (from the 51st century and not full-time), River (51st century, not full-time), Rory was brought back, Kylie (not full-time), two Claras (not from modern-day Earth), Mars woman (not from modern-day Earth), Donna (not permanent in Turn Left) and Danny Pink (not full-time).

To a previous poster, I did not know that about Adric (that he wasn't human) so I stand corrected.

The reason why I specifically single out "full-time companion from modern-day Earth" is that traditionally, the writers have used such characters as proxies for the audience, so actually killing them outright seemed to be something that was avoided. So I was a little surprised to see it here.
 
I really cannot see either how someone the Doctor gives a one-time lift to in the Tardis can be called a companion.
 
Clara's death was drawn out and nowhere near as shocking as Peri's death in Mindwarp and not as clever as we were lead to believe. The whole ep. though was little more than a set up for the two part finale.

There was more than a whiff of Utopia and Turn Left about this episode.
 
So we are stuck in a room with a stasis chamber, a human who cannot be killed and an alien who when he dies can regenerate and no one can figure out how to save Clara? The least the writer could have done was give us reasons why none of those would have worked.

On the one hand, it's no worse than Amy and Rory, where there's plenty of ways the Doctor could save them, but doesn't apparently. Which is probably the one problem with this "part-time companion" thing Moffat does. When it comes time for them to leave, the only option is apparently something completely convoluted and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
 
< No one in this thread has revealed anything that hasn't already been revealed by the BBC, Moffat, Capaldi or Coleman.<>>

Which is why I avoid those things. And the ads and the trailers. :)
 
< No one in this thread has revealed anything that hasn't already been revealed by the BBC, Moffat, Capaldi or Coleman.<>>

Which is why I avoid those things. And the ads and the trailers. :)

Yep. Warning to all. BBC released a synopsis for the next episode which gives away an almighty spoiler of epic proportions. I got completely spoiled not expecting they'd give away something like that. It's a huge one.

As for this episode. It was signposted in all forms of media what was going to happen. It was nicely done although a bit long. Capaldi. Wow. Anyone for some Valeyard?
 
Has anyone noticed that all of Moffat's companions have been killed off?

River- Brain fried in Forest of the Dead
Amy and Rory - Death by weeping angel in Angels Take Manhattan
Clara Oswald - Death by Raven
 
^ Hopefully the next companion leaves of their own free will, like Martha. It's kind of depressing that their time with the Doctor ends in death.
 
Apart from the actual dying, I thought it was an amazing episode. Interesting setting and some funny scenes. I rather liked the way Clara died. It's been established that Clara has been taking worse and worse risks, and reality was bound to catch up with her sooner or later. Fitting that she died trying to save Rigsby by doing just that. And the conversation before she died was close to perfect, I'd say. The death was a little over the top, but I can forgive that.
 
It just occurred to me that poor Rigsy might have a repeat of his recent experiences. After being wrongfully accused of murdering Anna, he now has to deal with what to do with Clara's body, given that the Doctor is no longer around.

"Uh, yes, constable, I just happened to find this girl's dead body lying in the street. Yes, I did know her from Brighton. No, I didn't kill her. Where was I yesterday? Ummm....."
 
Although I didn't like the character much, the most shocking death in Doctor Who is Adric's in Earthshock. We even get a silent credit role with camera focused on his broken mathematical star.
 
It just occurred to me that poor Rigsy might have a repeat of his recent experiences. After being wrongfully accused of murdering Anna, he now has to deal with what to do with Clara's body, given that the Doctor is no longer around.

"Uh, yes, constable, I just happened to find this girl's dead body lying in the street. Yes, I did know her from Brighton. No, I didn't kill her. Where was I yesterday? Ummm....."

And with no sign of poison or foul play, the police will eventually conclude an aneurysm killed her and Rigsy is simply too traumatized to be a reliable witness. UNIT, once they hear, will cover any other tracks and take the now-painted TARDIS into storage for the Doctor to eventually - hopefully - reclaim. Clara's body will be returned to her family for burial, and Coal Hill School will have grief counselors on hand for staff and students.
 
I agree with some people that Clara's death lacked any strong emotion

And my juvenile mind couldn't shake this out of my head



HyFIzeZ.jpg
 
Although I didn't like the character much, the most shocking death in Doctor Who is Adric's in Earthshock. We even get a silent credit role with camera focused on his broken mathematical star.

For me, the saddest part was how Adric was so proud of that star (received as an award for mathematical ability), and probably something Adric would have wanted the Doctor to have to remember him by, but the Doctor was forced to destroy it in order to ram the gold fragments into the Cyberleader's chest unit. So the Cybermen's actions not only claimed Adric's life itself, but also the tangible remnants of Adric's memory.
 
And with no sign of poison or foul play, the police will eventually conclude an aneurysm killed her and Rigsy is simply too traumatized to be a reliable witness. UNIT, once they hear, will cover any other tracks and take the now-painted TARDIS into storage for the Doctor to eventually - hopefully - reclaim.

Well, UNIT's involvement might be a problem, as the episode implies that it has no knowledge of the secret street. (one of the threats the Doctor makes is that he will reveal its location to UNIT).

Other than that, you're right in that the London police are probably more competent and objective than Mayor Me's constabulary.
 
Fantastic, just fantastic. Everyone was on top form, Maisie William's best performance as Ashildr (sp), Capaldi was superb and Jenna...well she was wonderful. It didn't hit me hard because I've never been the biggest Clara fan, but it was still wonderfully done, especially as she kinda dies for nothing, and I loved the editing during her death, wonderful timing on the smoke coming out of her mouth to give you a moment's hope before you get punched in the gut again.

wish people would stop going on about Digon Alley, this felt more Neverwhere to me (Gaiman was doing magical streets hidden in London way before Rowling)

As for who's behind the Doctor's kidnap, gotta be
the Timelords
 
I think I need to stop reading things on the internet. Going into this episode knowing Clara was going to die definitely ruins some of the impact.

That said, I really loved their goodbye scene, but I kind of wish that the episode itself had been more...important. This was more or less a small, standalone story. Killing off a main character should be saved for bigger events. It might have been better if Rigsy had made a more recent appearance, because I had to remind myself who he was. I kept confusing him with the "robot" brother from "Journey to the Center of the TARDIS."

But I did like it for what it was, and I definitely got a little teary-eyed when Clara was talking.

I do wonder now if Vastra and Jenny will pop up again sometime. After the Ponds left, the Doctor went to them for comfort. It seems reasonable that he would eventually go to them now that Clara is gone, especially since they knew her too.
 
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