How do you think Time's Arrow started the first time?

[Paradise City]

Data's head wouldn't appear in the JJ-verse surely?

In fact there's no guarantee there will be something as basic as an Enterprise A or anything like that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Data's head wouldn't appear in the JJ-verse surely?

It could. The head was left in the late 1800s, which obviously predates the timeline divergence. At that point in time, both the Prime and Abrams timelines are possible futures.

 

[Leviathan]

That timeline is no longer certain ergo the head is very Schrodinger-y in its existence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At the specific point in time where Data's head is left, BOTH timelines are possible. Neither is more "certain" than the other.

(Hell, characters from both timelines could even meet face to face, if they went back to any point before the divergence.)

 

[Finn]

That reminds me. Guinan must be going mad in the Abramsverse.

 

[Paradise City]

At the specific point in time where Data's head is left, BOTH timelines are possible. Neither is more "certain" than the other.

(Hell, characters from both timelines could even meet face to face, if they went back to any point before the divergence.)

This is timelines we're talking about. Surely when Nero made his intervention the time line 'was irrecoverably changed and a new future would have been created' (to paraphrase, borrow and modify Picard's line in Yesterdays Enterprise). Data then goes on to remark in that episode that they won't even know the events that they lived in had occurred.

Not to mention the Krenim eliminating entire species with their timeship.

Different quantum realities is where universes can co-exist. We saw that with Worf jumping from one reality to another in the 7th season episode Parallels.. This is where universes can coexist together ad infinitum. You make a timeline change though then the old timeline is gone.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That reminds me. Guinan must be going mad in the Abramsverse.

But that universe's Guinan hasn't gone through the Nexus...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think he's referring to her instinct in Yesterday's Enterprise where things aren't right.

Of course we don't know whether Guinan's homeworld has been destroyed by the Borg yet. She might not be going crazy with intuition until she gets to Federation space.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In "Yesterday's Enterprise", the current timeline was (temporarily) overwritten and replaced with a different one. That hasn't happened in Abrams-world. So there's no reason Guinan would notice.

 

[Mytran]

Data's head was left in San Francisco as a result of an expedition from the (Prime) 24th century. As a result, its quantum timeline frequency thingy is tied to that timeline, and would only be present in that precise timeline. Any (Abrams) 23rd century archaeologists digging in that cave would be unable to see or interact with the head, since (due to Nero's split) they have a different quantum timeline frequency.

This is all speculation of course, but if every single time traveller from every single quantum divergence was free to leave souvenirs in the past (that were visible to all), there wouldn't be any space left for the rest of us!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Data's head was left in San Francisco as a result of an expedition from the (Prime) 24th century. As a result, its quantum timeline frequency thingy is tied to that timeline, and would only be present in that precise timeline.

Remember what I just said; at the point where Data's head was left, BOTH timelines are possible futures, and thus are equally valid.

And we have certainly seen instances of characters from different timelines being able to meet and interact with each other. TOS' "Mirror, Mirror" and TNG's "Parallels" tend to spring to mind.

 

[Finn]

That reminds me. Guinan must be going mad in the Abramsverse.

But that universe's Guinan hasn't gone through the Nexus...

How do you know?? The Borg probably still destroyed her world.....

What we have seen so far wouldn't prevent those El Aurians to head for the Nexus ribbon...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Guinan's homeworld was destroyed in the early to mid 2290's. That's 30 years later than the current Abrams films are taking place (IIRC, the Abramsverse is currently at about 2262). So assuming Nero's interference had no effect on the Borg - and I don't see how it could have - then Guinan's home planet must still be in existence as of 'now'.

 

[Finn]

^How do you know? Just because we saw the El Aurian refuges in the 2290s doesn't mean it just happened....

Besides, they were desperate to get into the nexus. That suggests quite some time had passed since it happened.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^How do you know? Just because we saw the El Aurian refuges in the 2290s doesn't mean it just happened....

They seemed desperate enough to suggest that it did.

Besides, where else did you think those refugees were coming from?

 

[Finn]

30-40 thousand light years away

I'd buy one or a few of them acting like that right away, but not two ships full of refuges.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

In "Yesterday's Enterprise", the current timeline was (temporarily) overwritten and replaced with a different one. That hasn't happened in Abrams-world. So there's no reason Guinan would notice.

I don't buy this explanation. Time travel is time travel is time travel (if indeed time travel is possible). Why should one instance erase the future, while another create a parallel timeline? It's one or the other, and can't be set at the convenience of the writer.

So, whatever happened, the timeline evolved differently AFTER Nero's incursion. Anything there before is there after, including Data's head. Now, if they're abiding by "Back to the Future" rules, Data should be fading out of pictures the longer the new timeline persists....

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why should one instance erase the future, while another create a parallel timeline? It's one or the other, and can't be set at the convenience of the writer.

Actually, yes it can. Whatever the writer says happened, IS what happened.

Especially for something as utterly fictional as time travel. No one has ever actually done it, probably no one ever WILL do it, so writers have absolute freedom to make up whatever rules they want. Whatever rules suit the story they're trying to tell.

That said, Christopher's 'Department of Temporal Investigations' novels do an excellent job of explaining why time travel sometimes overwrites and sometimes does not.

 

[DonIago]

I've always figured the method of time travel had a lot to do with it as well.

 

[JesterFace]

Why were Guinan and other El Aurians out of the Nexus, if they had been there once... why were they trying to get back, why did they leave it...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Guinan didn't literally exist in two places at once (i.e. out of the nexus and in it). She just left an echo behind, when the Enterprise-B's transporter tried to beam her out. That's why she left an echo, and others such as Kirk and Picard didn't. Those two left willingly, Guinan was "pulled...RIPPED away".

I've always figured the method of time travel had a lot to do with it as well.

That's what the DTI novels say. In a nutshell, it's this:

The black hole that sent Nero and Spock Prime back in time, allowed no quantum information to be passed back to the present. It was a strictly one-way method of travel. Therefore the 'prime' timeline was not overwritten by Nero's changes to history, but a new one was created alongside it.

Contrast this with, for example, the time warp from "Yesterday's Enterprise". It was a two-way passage - one could go in either direction, from the future to the past or vice versa. It allowed quantum information to be exchanged between the future and the past. Therefore, the original timeline was overwritten during this episode, and was put right at the end.