Did the writers shy away from resolving anything?

[hux]

You could use that logic to justify any murder.

No, you really couldn't.

A sentient being saying that it wishes to live, and then being put to death, is murder.

Tuvix wasn't a sentient being. He was two sentient beings whose combined thoughts and personalities produced the illusion of a third unique consciousness when in fact there were only two.

And most importantly, as I have already said... Tuvix continues to exist. Nothing that made his existence possible was taken away. Nothing.

So what did she murder?

 

[Catarina]

Does anyone else have any examples of these instances where you feel there was a lack of resolution?

I feel that Voyager shied away from having Janeway face the justice she deserved for murdering Tuvix: a court martial which would have found her guilty, stripped her of all her status as a Starfleet officer, and imprisoned her for life.

I have felt the same way. That episode made me feel physically sick and seriously consider not watching another episode of Voyager. I have to pretend it never happened in order to enjoy the show at all. It is my main reason for viewing Captain Janeway as my most disliked character in all of Star Trek.

I remember having a visceral action myself but she wanted her friends back. Her expression which the director asked Kate to do was disconcerting. Maybe if she looked mournful instead of kinda spiteful? eeek. I liked Tuvix. I mean at this point, Tuvok was boring, and Neelix was a green eyed monster I wanted to keep Tuvix. The actor Tom Wright was a bit of a dick so I bet certain actors were glad he was a one show wonder. Still from my perspective I liked that guy. And didn't back her up. In real life we grief the loss of people. It would have been brazen on the writers part to make the characters commit to that loss. It gives the transporters a sense of danger also.
Oh, my point for rambling on, I don't think she murdered him. He was a combo of the two men's characteristics. I didn't see anything that was his own. Just a dominate neelix with black skin. She restored them. Murder is ending of life period. ending a combo of personalities I don't see it that way. Doesn't make me less comfortable with what she did. But I don't like change so....

 

[Amaraen]

I did not really care for Tuvix myself; I liked Tuvok and Neelix better. Tuvix was definitely a new individual though. This wasn't just a body with Tuvok's and Neelix's split personalities talking to each other (if that was the case, then Tuvix definitely would have been able to speak for the other two, and their wishes to remain as Tuvix would have been clear). The whole is not simply the sum of its parts, the episode made it clear that he was a new life form created from the merging of Tuvok and Neelix.

 

[hux]

Imagine Tuvok's (newly accessible) fears. Imagine Neelix finally being able to get close to Tuvok (who has kept him emotionally distant until now). Now imagine these thoughts and feelings combine in a confused muddle.

Tuvix expressed those thoughts and feelings as best he could. Tuvok and Neelix experience fear and concern at what is happening to them and the risks involved in being separated. That fear is funneled through Tuvix and he expresses it as a desire to live. A basic survival reflex.

In order to argue that there is a unique consciousness involved, you need to explain where it came from.

In order to accuse Janeway of murder, you need to show that she destroyed whatever it was that allowed him to exist in the first place (that would be Tuvok and Neelix... both of whom continue to exist).

 

[Amaraen]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's interesting how different people can view and interpret things differently.

 

[T'Girl]

Janeway should of had Vorik mindmeld with composite dude and communicated directly with Neelix and Tuvok and asked them what they wanted.

"Get us the hell out of here."

 

[Drone]

She certainly did. He was a new sentient being who pleaded for his life. I am glad that the Doctor at least would not participate.

He was sentient, but the incontrovertible fact is that his existence was the result of an accident, one that while it submerged the personas of Tuvok and Neelix, did not kill them. As long as the integrity of their separate personhoods could be restored, that eventuality had to take precedence over Tuvix's being able to survive, morally, ethically, in every sense. Janeway's action was in no way murder, but simply restoration.

Now what could have been done and I would certainly have supported it, would for Tuvix to have been cloned so that this distinct personality could have remained among the living and on board. If Wright would have been open to it, he could have made a subsequent appearance or two. The interaction between Tuvix and his progenitors face to face would have been, ah....interesting.

Oh, and by the way as far as the Doctor's participation went, I thought his refusal is understandable in the sense that many physicians would not willingly accept such a role as a violation of their charge as healers, as the Doctor recited at the end of Darkling. But in this instance, I think his seemingly sudden ethical stand, came out of nowhere and was borderline hypocritical. Presumably his continuing to pursue a means to reverse the process was not being done for purely academic reasons. If his research was successful, as one would assume he meant it to be, what else could've possibly been the outcome than what actually transpired? Was the Doctor really that oblivious? If his programming prohibited him from having to face proceeding with the obvious denouement of his work, than he should have refused to embark on it in the first place.

Whatever other instances of his being a maladjusted wiseacre and idiot, this was the only time i can remember thinking of him being a fucking dumbass.

I feel that Voyager shied away from having Janeway face the justice she deserved for murdering Tuvix: a court martial which would have found her guilty, stripped her of all her status as a Starfleet officer, and imprisoned her for life.

I have felt the same way. That episode made me feel physically sick and seriously consider not watching another episode of Voyager. I have to pretend it never happened in order to enjoy the show at all. It is my main reason for viewing Captain Janeway as my most disliked character in all of Star Trek.

I remember having a visceral action myself but she wanted her friends back. Her expression which the director asked Kate to do was disconcerting. Maybe if she looked mournful instead of kinda spiteful? eeek.

That wasn't my impression of her visage at all. I think that the seeming stony face was her means of not showing emotion, but my sense of watching her walking out of sickbay, was close to feeling that a part of herself had just died as well.

 

[hux]

Janeway should of had Vorik mindmeld with composite dude and communicated directly with Neelix and Tuvok and asked them what they wanted.

"Get us the hell out of here."

Or just tell Tuvix that they've found a way to duplicate him and also bring Tuvok and Neelix back.

"Now please sit on the bio-bed, this won't take a sec."

 

[Navaros]

She didn't murder Tuvix.

Yes she did. Tuvix was alive, and then Janeway deliberately took an action that made him no longer be alive. That's murder.

Tuvix wasn't a sentient being. He was two sentient beings whose combined thoughts and personalities produced the illusion of a third unique consciousness when in fact there were only two.

And most importantly, as I have already said... Tuvix continues to exist. Nothing that made his existence possible was taken away. Nothing.

So what did she murder?

That's incorrect. Tuvix was one sentient being and it was no illusion.

Tuvix does not continue to exist, that's also incorrect. Janeway snuffed Tuvix out of existence by killing him.

 

[hux]

Yes she did. Tuvix was alive, and then Janeway deliberately took an action that made him no longer be alive. That's murder.

Nope.

Tuvok and Neelix were alive and then... Tuvok and Nelleix were still alive.

That's incorrect. Tuvix was one sentient being and it was no illusion.

Tuvix does not continue to exist, that's also incorrect. Janeway snuffed Tuvix out of existence by killing him.

Still nope.

If Tuvix was a unique consciousness then from which magical pixie land did that consciousness come from? His sentient mind was just floating around the aether just waiting for a body to occupy?

 

[Anwar]

She didn't murder Tuvix.

Yes she did. Tuvix was alive, and then Janeway deliberately took an action that made him no longer be alive. That's murder.

Instead of abandoning Neelix and Tuvok to die? She should've shirked her responsibilities to them? I'm sure Tuvok's family would've loved to hear that.

That's incorrect. Tuvix was one sentient being and it was no illusion.

Tuvix does not continue to exist, that's also incorrect. Janeway snuffed Tuvix out of existence by killing him.

Because Tuvok and Neelix didn't deserve to get their lives back?

Like I said, no one would care if Kirk had done the same to bring back Spock and McCoy from a fused being.

Of course, TOS would've wussed out and have the fused being sacrifice itself and ask to be demerged while dying. Some neat little package ending like that.

 

[Catarina]

I still think they shy away from the true consequences of writing in baby lizards

 

[Scotchy]

I liked the Voyager finale. They detailed a lot of the potential eventualities in their depiction of the possible future.
A court martial of the maquis would have been tedious, starfleet indicts them, Jneway defends them and we have a flashback show detailing their heroism. Yawn.
Let's debrief 7 'o 9 - that'll be boring. Same thing. Janeway has spent a couple of years expounding on how she's part of the crew and not in the collective anymore, but we'll just retread that, shall we? With another series of flashbacks and re-explaining.
I thought their finale was well done, the rest is minutia that can be addressed in fan fic or elsewhere.
I also thought that them getting home was appropriate. Even the people in MASH got to go home at the end! If anyone had to write a delta quadrant Voyager story it's easy enough to fit one in between existing episodes.

 

[T'Girl]

And what did happen to the Borg baby?

 

[stardream]

And what did happen to the Borg baby?

Ah...little 'one of one' whom some of us call 'Onesie'.

It was returned to its home world. They meant to write it into a script but for whatever reason they never got around to it.

 

[Drone]

Besides the Maquis, what of the EMH? Does he enjoy fame as a published author? Are his self-written subroutines expanding his abilities examined for use in other programs? Or is he unceremoniously reprogrammed to join his cousins in the mines?

I would think that just by virtue of his being such an integral part of the crew of Voyager, Shining Voyager, literary renown aside, he would be famous, lauded, venerated, etc. for as long as he was around. Probably be some statues of him in various places on Earth.


One matter whose reason for being resolved the way it was but never actually articulated, while being fairly clear, was the breakup of Kes and Neelix. Andre Bormanis did actually address it on Fair Trade, though from what Ethan Phillips has said about the scene is that it is more a an acknowledgement of remaining care between the two of them, less than an explicit explanation by Kes for her decision. Regardless, it was edited out for time considerations allegedly.

Naturally, the reference to Neelix's cooking in The Gift doesn't count.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

She didn't murder Tuvix.

Yes she did. Tuvix was alive, and then Janeway deliberately took an action that made him no longer be alive. That's murder.

Instead of abandoning Neelix and Tuvok to die? She should've shirked her responsibilities to them? I'm sure Tuvok's family would've loved to hear that.

That's incorrect. Tuvix was one sentient being and it was no illusion.

Tuvix does not continue to exist, that's also incorrect. Janeway snuffed Tuvix out of existence by killing him.

Because Tuvok and Neelix didn't deserve to get their lives back?

Like I said, no one would care if Kirk had done the same to bring back Spock and McCoy from a fused being.

Of course, TOS would've wussed out and have the fused being sacrifice itself and ask to be demerged while dying. Some neat little package ending like that.

Tuvok and Neelix were dead. Janeway sacrificed Tuvix to revive them.

Hypothetical scenario. I have a spell that can bring two people back to life, but it requires sacrificing one person. So I grab this person off the street, murder him, and this results in two people coming back to life.

...Am I not a murderer, or should I be praised for coming out one life ahead?

 

[hux]

Tuvok and Neelix were dead. Janeway sacrificed Tuvix to revive them.

Also known as not dead.

Hypothetical scenario. I have a spell that can bring two people back to life, but it requires sacrificing one person. So I grab this person off the street, murder him, and this results in two people coming back to life.

...Am I not a murderer, or should I be praised for coming out one life ahead?

No because...

1) Tuvok and Neelix were not dead.
2) The existence of Tuvix required the sacrifice of Tuvok and Neelix (whereas your hypothetical street walker does not need those two people to exist in order for him to also exist)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And what did happen to the Borg baby?

Ah...little 'one of one' whom some of us call 'Onesie'.

It was returned to its home world. They meant to write it into a script but for whatever reason they never got around to it.

I always used to think that one of the crewmembers adopted the baby. But that works too.

I do wonder how they could have determined its species, let alone located its homeworld, but I guess the Doctor could have scanned it. Or perhaps it's actually a "native" Borg, like the baby from Q Who...

 

[Paradise City]

Tuvix was a distinct individual. Like you mix up ingredients to create a distinct cake with its own personality. Tuvix may have been psychologically troubled but he spoke and thought with a single and original voice. Janeway put an end to that life to save two others. Very morally suspect though.

===

The issue with Voyager for me is it just lapsed into being a weak TNG clone for most part. They got home not much longer after a 5 year mission and didn't seem much for the worse for wear. They had to resort to emasculating the borg and they used time travel storylines far too much.

I would've had them as multigenerational ship, perhaps starting out with the original movie era with those uniforms and have them spat out as an oddity, battered and bruised, perhaps after the Dominion War with basically a new crew, the old one having either died off or presented as infirm. Having them actually go through decades would've given Star Trek a very new spin away from TNG. Anyway, it was not to be.