What's the problem with Sarek and Spock?

[xvicente]

In "Journey to Babel" we learned Spock and Sarek had a fall out, but it was resolved and confirmed in Star Trek IV.

"Yesteryear" was very coherent too.

Then Unification came and that woman that looks like Amanda said all was again exactly like it was 100 years before.

I like Spock's appearance in TNG but that was not brilliant.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Sarek never approved of Spock being a part of Starfleet. He had wanted Spock to go to the Vulcan Science Academy.

It was probably inconsistent writing.

The woman was Perrin, Sarek's second wife.

 

[Anwar]

Sarek gave Spock the closest thing to a "I was wrong" in Star Trek IV as a Vulcan can give.

They had a falling out over other stuff in the 100 year gap.

 

[martok2112]

Indeed.

Sarek opposed Spock joining StarFleet. It caused a rift in them for years.

They kinda made up in ST IV.

Then, after the events of Star Trek VI, Spock formed (he thought) a friendship with Romulan Ambassador Pardek, who spoke of wishing to reunite the Vulcan and Romulan people. Sarek thought Spock was being illogical. Spock pursued reunification anyway. That was another rift formed between them.

 

[Timo]

It is sort of logical and consistent: when Sarek first "relented", he admitted that Spock's alien friends were pretty decent folks after all - suggesting that his earlier belief that they were not had been the problem. Now Spock hangs around with Romulans, and again Sarek has every reason to think that they are no good, at least not until proven otherwise...

Basically, dad is worried about the company the son keeps. And that won't change until Spock grows up, which at a mere hundred and fifty or so he probably hasn't achieved yet.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Sometimes a father and son just can't see eye to eye, even among Vulcans it seems.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Sometimes a father and son just can't see eye to eye, even among Vulcans it seems.

Thus exposing a flaw in the conceit, as stated repeatedly by Spock, that Vulcans have no emotions. Had they no emotions, there would be no quarrel. Certainly there is no logical reason for Sarek to shun Spock for years at a time.

 

[The Wormhole]

Sometimes a father and son just can't see eye to eye, even among Vulcans it seems.

Thus exposing a flaw in the conceit, as stated repeatedly by Spock, that Vulcans have no emotions. Had they no emotions, there would be no quarrel. Certainly there is no logical reason for Sarek to shun Spock for years at a time.

Vulcans have emotions, they just try to repress them. Not always successfully.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I dunno. Logic means rationality, and rationality in face of infinite possibilities (as is the case in social interaction) means rationalization. It might appear quite logical for Sarek to refrain from talking to his son if the exchanging of words results in no reconsidering of positions anyway; emotions need not be involved.

Equally logical might be an approach where Sarek phones his son every Tuesday and bitches and moans about his failure to comprehend the rational course of action vis-á-vis joining Starfleet / mingling with Romulans / marrying Saavik / whatever... Emotion could always be denied in connection with this tactic as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Karzak]

Good lord, guys.

Spock and Sarek make up after the events of "Journey to Babel." Later, in TVH, they have a nice scene together:

From STAR TREK IV:
SPOCK: Father?
SAREK: I am returning to Vulcan within the hour. I would like to take my leave of you.
SPOCK: It was most kind of you to make this effort.
SAREK: It was not an effort. You are my son. ...Besides, I am most impressed with your performance in this ...crisis.
SPOCK: Most kind.
SAREK: As I recall, I opposed your enlistment in Starfleet. ...It is possible that judgment was incorrect. ...Your associates are people of good character.
SPOCK: They are my friends.
SAREK: Yes, of course. ...Do you have a message for your mother?
SPOCK: Yes. Tell her ...I feel fine. Live long and prosper, father.
SAREK: Live long and prosper, my son.

Later, Perrin explains to Picard what the new animosity is about:

From TNG's "Unification, Part I"
PERRIN: Mint tea. It's been years since I've had it. Vulcans have some kind of strange concoction they call mint. You'd never recognise it.
PICARD: Perrin, do you know why I've come to Vulcan? I must talk to you about Spock.
PERRIN: He didn't even say goodbye to his father before he left.
PICARD: Is it possible he could have been abducted?
PERRIN: No. He wrapped up all of his affairs carefully. He knew he was going.
PICARD: Do you have any idea why he might have disappeared like this?
PERRIN: Captain, as far as I'm concerned, he disappeared a long time ago.
PICARD: Would it be inappropriate to ask what happened between you and Spock?
PERRIN: Not between us. Between Spock and his father. They had argued for years. That was family. But when the debates over the Cardassian war began, he attacked Sarek's position publicly. He showed no loyalty to his father.
PICARD: I was not aware that Sarek was offended by Spock's opposition.
PERRIN: I was offended. I made sure Spock knew it. I'm very protective of my husband. I do not apologise for it.
PICARD: Does Sarek have any idea why Spock might have left?
PERRIN: I don't know. If you could see Sarek as I do, wasting in bed, whispering to himself. He wants to see his son. He wants to heal any rift that may still remain. Now, it may be too late.
PICARD: Perrin, would you allow me to see Sarek?
PERRIN: If it were anyone else I would never permit it, but you are a part of him and he of you.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

From TNG's "Unification, Part I"
PICARD: Perrin, would you allow me to see Sarek?
PERRIN: If it were anyone else I would never permit it, but you are a part of him and he of you.

Hm. So once melded, always bonded? That could make life interesting for a lot of Trek characters.

 

[Anwar]

It could be that it has to be a certain type of mind-meld, a deeper-than-usual one. Clearly there was more going on in the Sarek/Picard one than the usual type we saw Spock do.

Notice that Spock and McCoy dropped most of their racist squabbling after TVH? I'd chalk that up to there now being a deeper bond between them due to Spock uploading his Katra into McCoy for a while.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

It could be that it has to be a certain type of mind-meld, a deeper-than-usual one. Clearly there was more going on in the Sarek/Picard one than the usual type we saw Spock do.

Notice that Spock and McCoy dropped most of their racist squabbling after TVH? I'd chalk that up to there now being a deeper bond between them due to Spock uploading his Katra into McCoy for a while.

Forgive my saying it in quite this way . . . but I find your conclusions to be utterly logical.

 

[Greg Cox]

We can also retroactively speculate that the whole business with Sybok influenced Sarek's thinking. He's already had one rebellious son reject Vulcan teaching in a big way, disgracing the family, and now his second son is choosing Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy . . . . ?

He was strict with Spock because he didn't want him going the way of Sybok.

 

[martok2112]

We can also retroactively speculate that the whole business with Sybok influenced Sarek's thinking. He's already had one rebellious son reject Vulcan teaching in a big way, disgracing the family, and now his second son is choosing Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy . . . . ?

He was strict with Spock because he didn't want him going the way of Sybok.

Kirk: ...because I happen to know for a fact that you don't have a brother.

Spock: That's what my father told me. He didn't hold with my brother's ideals. Thought I should've stayed here and not gotten involved. He feared I'd follow Sybok on some damned fool idealistic crusade.

 

[Karzak]

From TNG's "Unification, Part I"
PICARD: Perrin, would you allow me to see Sarek?
PERRIN: If it were anyone else I would never permit it, but you are a part of him and he of you.

Hm. So once melded, always bonded? That could make life interesting for a lot of Trek characters.

I think it is more that Perrin knew (she was around when it happened) and understood therefore that as personal as sharing a mind-meld is, the one Picard and Sarek shared was especially personal and sensitive as Sarek's mind had already started to break down its own walls of logic and emotional control. As we saw, Picard could barely handle the download of emotions!

Because of all this, Perrin knew that Sarek and Picard had bonded in a very special, very personal and unique way. This wasn't Spock melding with Kirk or McCoy at the height of Spock's personal self-control. This was a Vuclan whose passions and emotions were basically set free.

 

[martok2112]

Hm. So once melded, always bonded? That could make life interesting for a lot of Trek characters.

I think it is more that Perrin knew (she was around when it happened) and understood therefore that as personal as sharing a mind-meld is, the one Picard and Sarek shared was especially personal and sensitive as Sarek's mind had already started to break down its own walls of logic and emotional control. As we saw, Picard could barely handle the download of emotions!

Because of all this, Perrin knew that Sarek and Picard had bonded in a very special, very personal and unique way. This wasn't Spock melding with Kirk or McCoy at the height of Spock's personal self-control. This was a Vuclan whose passions and emotions were basically set free.

And the feeling of gratitude, even for a Vulcan, was probably beyond that which Sarek could measure. In typical Vulcan fashion, he was able to hide it well.