Overwhelming Incompetence: a.k.a Government Healthcare
- Thread starter Tiberius Jim
- Start date
That voucher program never made sense to me. $5,000 is *nothing* when it comes to healthcare costs.
My brain surgery in 2007 would've cost me $80,000-90,000 out of pocket. Granted, that's an extreme...but how much do you think a delivery would cost?
Generally, about 40-some cents for first class postage or maybe $18 for a nice pizza and tip to the driver.
What does 'single payer' mean ? A national (i.e. paid by taxation) service ?
My brother Mark works for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. He mentioned that New Mexico has had a risk pool for people who would otherwise be uninsured.
www.nmmip.org
www.nmmip.org
Ah, sort of government administered but not government owned facilities or government employed staff.
Well it can be government owned and run, with government staff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care
Yup. My neurosurgery (spine, not brain) cost the insurance company almost $300,000. With all the post-op complications, it ended up over $300,000 in six months.
Maryland had a similar program prior to the ACA. It helped me enormously the last couple years before I became eligible for Medicare.
I am pleased with your good fortune, Tora Ziyal. 
I was a cancer patient back in 2011. I had a hospitalization/surgery/chemo. I was signed up with an HMO, and they took good care of me.
But what about the unemployed? The homeless? How will they survive?
I was a cancer patient back in 2011. I had a hospitalization/surgery/chemo. I was signed up with an HMO, and they took good care of me.
But what about the unemployed? The homeless? How will they survive?
Discovery MRI.
Mapping MRI before surgery.
Surgical biopsy.
All would have cost be roughly the same for my brain surgery had I not had insurance. Even with insurance the MRIs, surgery, and overnight stay in an ICU still cost me several thousand dollars. And I've had to have follow-up MRIs over the last few years to monitor the -benign- tumor's growth. Each MRI costing around $1,400 so a doctor, $70 for a specialist copay, can tell me "as we expected, slow-growing tumor that hasn't changed. Your options remain the same, we can do radiation therapy to stop its growth, surgical removal or we can monitor it until it becomes a real problem."
Last year I skipped the MRI because I had issues with my car and had to look into buying a new one and didn't want to spend $1,400 to learn pretty much nothing.
And this is *with* insurance and I have pretty decent insurance. But things like MRIs and brain-surgery are expensive. Thankfully I have that insurance, without it I have no clue what would have happened. Or how I'd even afford my medications I need to control the minor seizures as well as other medical issues I have. I spend $40 a month on generic prescription drugs.
It's nice having insurance, but it's absurd to me that for people out there it's a profitable *business* for people out there to be sick and in need of drugs and treatments.
If you want to eat, you need to pay. Makes sense.
If you want a TV, you need to pay. Makes sense.
Want to live, and live a normal, pain-free, seizure-free life because your body has medical issues outside of your control? You... have... to... pay?!
Why am I paying for the privilege to live?
I am pleased with your good fortune, Tora Ziyal.
I was a cancer patient back in 2011. I had a hospitalization/surgery/chemo. I was signed up with an HMO, and they took good care of me.
Yeah, I'm talking about cancer surgery (but no chemo) in 2011, too. Hope you're doing well now!
Yes, I responded to treatment very well, Tora Ziyal. Thank you.
I was reading Pumpkin Spice Bacon's comments, I have to say I am disturbed by the idea that people have to make these trade offs. Or that in the case of the impoverished/uninsured, they would be wiped out, financially if not literally.
I was reading Pumpkin Spice Bacon's comments, I have to say I am disturbed by the idea that people have to make these trade offs. Or that in the case of the impoverished/uninsured, they would be wiped out, financially if not literally.
While I am sympathetic, I have to ask in all objectivity if you understand that when you cannot pay, others pay for you. Insurance doesn't make things free. It only shifts the cost to the pool of money. So why should anyone who is not you take on your financial burden so that you may live? I'm pretty sure the answer is so that society can benefit from what you have to give. But the way you phrase the question doesn't recognize that the universe doesn't care whether life is fair, or the concept of available resources combined with natural selection - another completely objective force of nature. I feel lucky to have societal support for the medical insurance supporting the needs of my family, but it's extremely difficult to say that I expect life without cost.
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Like I said, health care is an absolute right.
The universe may not care, but people do. People make life a little more fair. Can't be perfect, but it's the best we can do.
Dare I ask what is the purpose of this kind of devil's advocacy? No one is arguing "I want everything in life to be free without me ever having to lift a finger."
The question "Why am I paying for the privilege to live?" is a bad rhetorical or ideological question that really does imply a statement like your hyperbole to be used by the opposition to point out the attitudes of entitlement without reciprocity. It does harm to the cause. And when I say I don't expect "life without cost," I do mean literally saving my life with medical intervention - not free groceries.
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If all people have a right to life, it does not really follow that everyone must perform some set amount of work in order to survive.
I'm fine with there being a social obligation to work, if you are able, but what about instances where there is no work available to you, or you are not physically capable? What if you become injured/ill to an extent that will keep you from working for 6 months, or years, or forever? Is that the time to do a cost-benefit analysis and decide, "this person is too expensive; best to let them die"?
