Retro Review: Persistence of Vision
- Thread starter TrekToday
- Start date
Stupid bastards have taken control of the senate and starship force with this 'sacrifice'. Send 'em all back to Hoth, i say!
I don't remember a great deal during the time when Voyager first aired but I do remember the backlash this episode got from a lot of my female friends. How they HATED HATED HATED that Janeway and Torres 'deepest' fantasies were about romance. Why couldn't Janeway's 'deepest fantasy' be about getting the crew home...or Torres about doing something fantastical in the engine room. No...it had to be about men. I had to stand back because I was afraid I'd get burned by their rage..
They already hated the fake Bronte holonovel...and so did I.
For myself I was confused by Torres vision of Chakotay. I had a 'what the hell, writer?' moment. No sub plots or hints leading up to it and it was dropped just as quickly (thank heavens for that. I was cringing all the way through and even now if I HAVE to watch it I fast forward through it) Were they experimenting to see if the two actors had chemistry? I'd really like to know Jeri Taylor's explanation to that.
And what was up with Kes and the 'hurt/comfort' thing with Tom?
One of her deep desires is to take care of Paris?
I could go on and on...it was just a....mess.
They already hated the fake Bronte holonovel...and so did I.
For myself I was confused by Torres vision of Chakotay. I had a 'what the hell, writer?' moment. No sub plots or hints leading up to it and it was dropped just as quickly (thank heavens for that. I was cringing all the way through and even now if I HAVE to watch it I fast forward through it) Were they experimenting to see if the two actors had chemistry? I'd really like to know Jeri Taylor's explanation to that.
And what was up with Kes and the 'hurt/comfort' thing with Tom?
One of her deep desires is to take care of Paris? I could go on and on...it was just a....mess.
Last edited:
It's not an especially captivating episode but I do think they did a reasonably good job of creating a creepy atmosphere. As far as I'm concerned, people have misread the Jane Eyre holo-deck story as a Janewy romance fantasy. It's more than that. The most important aspect of it is the mystery of Lord Burleigh's wife. Is she alive?; is she dead? (is she in the attic?). The writers are clearly trying to create a creepy mystery with Janeway's holo-deck choice (one that ties in to the creepy and mysterious Botha storyline) more than they're trying to tell us something about Janeway.
It didn't entirely work but I'm not as critical as others. I am a fan of gothic horror and like the fact that they played with the genre. I especially love the performance of the brilliant Carolyn Seymour and totally bought that Janeway would be terrified by her (though nothing is quite as creepy as little Henry Burleigh... that kid made me shudder).
I think this is a little unfair. As I've already said, I think the Jane Eyre nature of Janeway's holo-deck choice is less about the romance with Burleigh and more about the mystery of his missing wife. That being said however, I have absolutely no problem with it being viewed as an insight into Janeway's sexuality. It's not uncommon for strong, independent, powerful women (and men) to be turned on by giving that power away and sexually submitting to someone. There are other examples in Voyager that hint towards Janeway being an alpha submissive and I see no reason to judge her for it.
Fill yer boots.
It didn't entirely work but I'm not as critical as others. I am a fan of gothic horror and like the fact that they played with the genre. I especially love the performance of the brilliant Carolyn Seymour and totally bought that Janeway would be terrified by her (though nothing is quite as creepy as little Henry Burleigh... that kid made me shudder).
I think this is a little unfair. As I've already said, I think the Jane Eyre nature of Janeway's holo-deck choice is less about the romance with Burleigh and more about the mystery of his missing wife. That being said however, I have absolutely no problem with it being viewed as an insight into Janeway's sexuality. It's not uncommon for strong, independent, powerful women (and men) to be turned on by giving that power away and sexually submitting to someone. There are other examples in Voyager that hint towards Janeway being an alpha submissive and I see no reason to judge her for it.
Fill yer boots.
One of the best Voyager episodes and a great Kes episode.
In the end it is Kes who saves the ship because of her being brave and determined. She is excellent and so is also the rest of the crew in an exciting, spooky and good written episode.
I'll give it 5 points out of 5
In the end it is Kes who saves the ship because of her being brave and determined. She is excellent and so is also the rest of the crew in an exciting, spooky and good written episode.
I'll give it 5 points out of 5
One of the best Voyager episodes and a great Kes episode.
In the end it is Kes who saves the ship because of her being brave and determined. She is excellent and so is also the rest of the crew in an exciting, spooky and good written episode.
I'll give it 5 points out of 5
What did you think of the scene where she saw Tom? I thought it was odd she saw him before she saw Neelix...although I suppose the alien was using Neelix as the 'big gun' in the engine room.
^^
I do have a theory here.
What if the alien was so clever that he could find out everything about the thoughts of the crew?
Maybe he found out that Kes had feelings for Tom and that she deep down inside had began to see Neelix as a creepy, possessive person and then he tried to use that in the hallucinations he caused to Kes.
I do have a theory here.
What if the alien was so clever that he could find out everything about the thoughts of the crew?
Maybe he found out that Kes had feelings for Tom and that she deep down inside had began to see Neelix as a creepy, possessive person and then he tried to use that in the hallucinations he caused to Kes.
I think your analysis of what this choice of Janeway's reveals about her character is insightful. The only thing that I would mention is that as far a direct creative tie-in to this particular episode, one should point out that the Burleigh program was, in fact, a continuation having been introduced back in the first season (Cathexis). i don't suppose that the writers felt the need to create another holo-deck scenario for Janeway when this one already had a history, albeit a slight one.
The piece of dialogue that is particularly interesting, as has been commented on by others, is the Bothan's response to Janeway's query about his motivation in doing what he does. His frank admission, "Because I can", is unusual to encounter among this or any of the series. It is strictly a malevolent rationale that seems starkly random with no mediating factors such as revenge, the desire to acquire technology or knowledge of the human condition, or even that old chestnut that the Bothan claims is the reason for his hostile action, that Voyager is an unwelcome intruder into his zealously guarded space. The sense that the Bothan acts with evil intent just to be evil is greeted with stunned silence and seeming disbelief by Janeway, Kes and B'Elanna and in some way is an explanation that I find refreshing to encounter in its rarity and a kind of truthfulness that is perhaps surprisingly lacking in scenarios that the various iterations of Trek find they have to come to grips with.
I think we can assume that "Persistence of Vision" was written before "Cathexis" was filmed. It was deliberately introduced and used sparingly in "Cathexis" before having its creepy, mysterious element fully exploited in the creepy and mysterious "Persistence of Vision."
It served its purpose.
It served its purpose.
Perhaps. But it might seem a bit odd for that to have happened as her powers had only been hinted(precognition only IIRC) at by the time Cathexis was filmed and for them to be written as so developed in Persistence would seem to have come out of nowhere, with only Kes's brief mention of doing mental exercises with Tuvok as the explanation.
Well that's a different issue. As far as Kes is concerned, the problem with characters who have super-brain-powers is that thier abilities are very often inconsistent - weak when the plot requires and strong when the plot requires. It's also why (in my opinion) those super-brain-power characters get very boring... very quickly.
Didn't Seven have "super brain powers"? Not telepathic ones but she was kind of a think tank on Voyager. And I never found her boring (although a lot of people do because they think she made everyone else unnecessary).
But then, I didn't find Kes boring, either. In fact I liked it how her character was being developed towards the end of Season 3. She was kind of getting more and more in the foreground - and then suddenly she was sent away.
I think if writers/producers come up with proper stories, these characters with super powers can work well for the show.
Seven's unrealistic abilities were based in science though so it was a little easier to ignore the inconsistencies. Her nano-probes solved far too many problems and yet weren't used when they could have been useful (Neelix gets to be reanimated after death but Carey doesn't?).
Characters with powers only really work for me when they're abilities are limited (Vulcan, Betazoid) because again, the inconsistencies are easier to ignore (Troi can't sense a guy in the next room but in the following episode she can sense that an entire planet is upset?).
The problem with Kes was that her abilities were inconsistent with her people (most Ocampan's having limited access to these abilities) and inconsistent on an individual level. Even when she met Ocampan's who were utilising their abilities (Cold Fire) she almost instantly surpassed them in ability. By the end of the episode, she can magic an entire ship thousands of light years through space. What other Ocampan's have this power?
Kes Discussion
Characters with powers only really work for me when they're abilities are limited (Vulcan, Betazoid) because again, the inconsistencies are easier to ignore (Troi can't sense a guy in the next room but in the following episode she can sense that an entire planet is upset?).
The problem with Kes was that her abilities were inconsistent with her people (most Ocampan's having limited access to these abilities) and inconsistent on an individual level. Even when she met Ocampan's who were utilising their abilities (Cold Fire) she almost instantly surpassed them in ability. By the end of the episode, she can magic an entire ship thousands of light years through space. What other Ocampan's have this power?
Kes Discussion
Last edited:
Similar threads
