"Before the Flood" Grading and Discussion Thread

[MacLeod]

There's only two ways to get the casual viewers back; one is to keep making a great show and hope they catch an episode and get re-hooked, the second is to shake things up, and much as people may or may not want that shake up to involve Moffat the truth is that the casual viewer won't give a shit about the show runner, so that change would have to be the Doctor, which frankly I think would be unfair on Capaldi.

Option 1 is playing the long game, option 2 is the knee jerk, quick win, but the downside is that you can't keep playing that card. I'd hope the BBC would go with option 1, I fear they'd go for option 2...

Maybe a new companion could generate some interest, especially if an old companion returned or someone relatively famous/unexpected got the job.

Well having a consistant time slot can help as well, next weeks episode is on yet again at a different time.

Capaldi seems to be more comfortable in the role this season so far, or perhaps it's the stories are better suited to him or perhaps It's just me. As for change we are due for a companion change shortly so that might shake hings up a bit, but they should go for something a bit different than someone from modern day Earth, if they must have one from the modern day they need a second who is from another time period/alien/robot etc..

 

[diankra]

On the whole it worked, but unless I've missed something the Fisher King doesn't really make sense.
As I get it, he's an alien warlord who's dead, but isn't, who's rigged his hearse so that it will kill people so that (several centuries on) his troops will pick up a signal from the not-ghosts and invade...
Talk about long-term planning...

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

On the whole it worked, but unless I've missed something the Fisher King doesn't really make sense.
As I get it, he's an alien warlord who's dead, but isn't, who's rigged his hearse so that it will kill people so that (several centuries on) his troops will pick up a signal from the not-ghosts and invade...
Talk about long-term planning...

I don't think he initially planned that far ahead. Only when the Doctor told him of the future he adapted a bit. He always planned on just staying in the chamber until his army arrived, but he probably figured that would happen sooner.
The dam blowing up threw a wrench into his original plan, because it would take over a century for a few potential corpses to stumble over his ship.
And of course he didn't plan on dying himself. Though interestingly he didn't turn himself into a ghost.

 

[StCoop]

Capaldi seems to be more comfortable in the role this season so far, or perhaps it's the stories are better suited to him or perhaps It's just me.

Or it's more that the character he's playing now bears almost no resemblance to the one he played last year. He's basically jumped from early, good Tom Baker to later over-indulged doing-whatever-he-wants Tom Baker in a shorter span of time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know what would have made this episode mind blowing?

If they'd reused the footage from Blink where HoloTennant explains Security protocol 712.

Weak episode.

Any woman on set more better than Clara is always killed.

Weird that, huh?

The Minister of War?

Something to look forward to.

 

[DWF]

Capaldi seems to be more comfortable in the role this season so far, or perhaps it's the stories are better suited to him or perhaps It's just me.

Or it's more that the character he's playing now bears almost no resemblance to the one he played last year.

I don't see how this is a bad thing, this year so far he's more in the center of the action, last season Clara and Danny had the greater focus.

 

[StCoop]

I don't see how this is a bad thing, this year so far he's more in the center of the action, last season Clara and Danny had the greater focus.

I'm just not fond of giving an actor that much control over what they do; especially since his main ideas seem have been, dress like a tramp and play his guitar a lot.

 

[DWF]

I don't see how this is a bad thing, this year so far he's more in the center of the action, last season Clara and Danny had the greater focus.

I'm just not fond of giving an actor that much control over what they do; especially since his main ideas seem have been, dress like a tramp and play his guitar a lot.

I don't think those are his ideas, they're clearly Moffat's ideas. I kind of liked the rock version of the opening theme though.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Wait, the Fisher King was an alien? I thought he was a robot.

 

[The Wormhole]

Not a bad episode, but there were definitely some pacing issues and it felt kind of padded at times. And the outcome was far too predictable. It was obvious right away, despite Bennett's not cluing in that the order Ghost Doctor was saying the names was the order in which they were killed, and many predicted last week that it was in fact the Doctor inside the pod. And really, the season trailers showing the Fisher King standing before a flood kind of gave away how that would turn out.

And I don't get the deal with the Fisher King. So he's clearly meant to be some sort of big bad, given he can stump the Doctor and even sets off the Cloister Bell. But all he does is have a conversation about the nature of the Time Lords and is killed. Really anti-climactic there.

The episode's not all bad. There were some nice character stuff with the base's crew, particularly Bennett's grief over the loss of O'Donnell and Cass and Lunn's little moment was nice as well. It is getting really irritating though when this show introduces characters who could make great companions only to end up killing them, as this story does with O'Donnell. Yeah, I get it, it's nice that we're made to care when a guest character is killed, that they aren't some Redshirt, but at the same time, it gets kind of annoying when we see a character introduced with potential to be an entertaining sidekick for the Doctor only to have the unable to come back at the end. But oh well.

Oh, and heavy metal version of the theme? Please keep.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm really trying to wrap my brain around this episode and it's not making sense to me.

So the Fisher King died on his planet, but he wasn't really dead, and he was taken to be buried on Earth, but he woke up and killed his undertaker and wrote a message on the hearse so anyone who read it became a ghost to tell his army where he was, but first he has to kill them and then they're supposed to, what, travel to the other planet? How? Or were enough of them supposed to get strong enough to build a strong signal that can be picked up?

And what happened to the Fisher King after he was buried in the flood? Did he just die-die? Or did he survive that too? Did he just swim up to the surface? Wouldn't his body float up even if he "died"?

And why didn't the other ghosts recognize that the ghost Doctor wasn't actually a fellow ghost?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The thought holoClara was a person in episode one.

They're idiots.

 

[The Wormhole]

And why didn't the other ghosts recognize that the ghost Doctor wasn't actually a fellow ghost?

Never mind that, if Ghost Doctor was just a hologram, how could he be projected outside the base and walk through the walls? More importantly, how could he operate the equipment?

 

[DarthPipes]

There was a lot I liked in this episode but I still had several issues with it.


-This is the second time the Doctor has defeated the villain with a loaded deck. Like Davros, he already had the Fisher King beat before he confronted him and that takes away from the excellent confrontation he had with the Fisher King. I like seeing the Doctor outsmart his villains but I don't want him to see him win before the fight even begins.


-This episode reaffirmed how toxic the Doctor and Clara relationship has become. The two of them truly bring out the worst in each other.


-I don't know what I want to destroy more...the Doctor's guitar (which was Capaldi's idea) or those STUPID sonic sunglasses. If Moffat wanted a "cool" Doctor than he should have casted a younger man.


-I'm sorry O'Donnell died. She showed more enthusiasm for the TARDIS than Clara did all of last season. I did like her bringing up some previous NuWho moments, like the election of Saxton.


-That all being said, I have to say I really liked how the second part really developed the underwater crew. They all shined here and the actors did some really good work. I agree that I liked all of them more here than the Doctor and Clara.


-The Fisher King was a really good, memorable one-off villain. The confrontation with the Doctor was excellent (before being undermined) and I liked that he knew about the Time Lords The hearse idea was a clever one.

-The whole Cass being stalked was well-shot and make good use of sound editing. Her touching the fall to feel the vibrations is something I can see Daredevil doing.

-You can tell Toby Whithouse wrote this episode and not Moffat because the dead crew stayed dead.


-I did like the timey-whimey aspects.


-The Soviet town mock-up made for a good setting.

 

[The Wormhole]

-I don't know what I want to destroy more...the Doctor's guitar (which was Capaldi's idea) or those STUPID sonic sunglasses. If Moffat wanted a "cool" Doctor than he should have casted a younger man.

Disagree, one need not be young to be cool. I actually like seeing Capaldi act like a younger man. Older man acting young makes a great counterpoint to Matt Smith's younger man acting old.

-You can tell Toby Whithouse wrote this episode and not Moffat because the dead crew stayed dead.

Ugh, so true. Were this a Moffat script, everyone's death would have been reversed so that everyone lives. In the event that anyone did stay dead, there would still be the chance they could return in a later episode, like someone killed last year will be doing later this season...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

-I don't know what I want to destroy more...the Doctor's guitar (which was Capaldi's idea) or those STUPID sonic sunglasses. If Moffat wanted a "cool" Doctor than he should have casted a younger man.

Disagree, one need not be young to be cool. I actually like seeing Capaldi act like a younger man. Older man acting young makes a great counterpoint to Matt Smith's younger man acting old.

Absolutely. One of the things I love about Peter Capaldi's performance is the "cool" aspect, especially in contrast Matt Smith' old man act.

Besides, Ian McKellan and Patrick Stewart's real-life shenanigans are wicked fun. I hope and prey and dream that I'm a fraction as cool as those two guys are when I'm that age.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Why would the Fisher King contact his people? According to him, his message would bring an armada to drain the Earth's oceans and to enchain Humanity.

I do not speak British Sign Language. What did Cass say to Clara that did not need translation?

 

[Starkers]

I suspect something along the lines of "go fuck yourself" but really the specifics aren't important.

 

[JoeZhang]

More importantly, how could he operate the equipment?

I am trying to think - does operate anything that isn't software? In other words, when he *appears* to be pushing a button, it's just the software working and that is a visual effect.

(if he lifts something solid that I forgot about, that blows that theory)


Random fact - the roar of the Fisher King is provided by the lead singer of Slipknot Corey Taylor.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Weren't the series 4 opening titles a bit "rock guitar-y"? I don't see the issue with tonight's riff on them.