What is Star Trek and its future?

[Trekkin]

When I was younger, I had a conversation with the owner of our local Video EZ about that. Why place the first 'Friday the 13th' in the Horror section, but put 'Red Dragon' under Thriller? Why is 'Armageddon' under 'Action', but 'Aliens' under 'Science Fiction'?

I'm pretty certain he told me that when I owned the store, I'd be allowed to put them wherever I please.

Book shops nearly always conflate Sci-Fi/Horror/Fantasy into the same section. Except for that 'Paranormal Romance' or 'Teen Fantasy' shelf they nearly all have now.

 

[Nerys Myk]

When I was younger, I had a conversation with the owner of our local Video EZ about that. Why place the first 'Friday the 13th' in the Horror section, but put 'Red Dragon' under Thriller? Why is 'Armageddon' under 'Action', but 'Aliens' under 'Science Fiction'?

I'm pretty certain he told me that when I owned the store, I'd be allowed to put them wherever I please.

Book shops nearly always conflate Sci-Fi/Horror/Fantasy into the same section. Except for that 'Paranormal Romance' or 'Teen Fantasy' shelf they nearly all have now.

In the books stores I worked in "Horror" was a bit tricky. Big name writers like Stephen King and Anne Rice wound up in "Fiction".

 

[Trekkin]

The last two King books I picked up from the nearest books store were really messed up. Doctor Sleep (which has a version of vampires as its villains) was in 'Fiction', whereas 'Finders Keepers' (a flat-put thriller with a human villain) was in 'Sci-Fi and Fantasy.' It's still written on the price sticker I left on the back.

Remember how nearly the whole point of 'genres' was that it's supposed to make it easier to work out where to find things?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Obviously, where King gets shelved is a marketing thing. If general fiction's where King's getting shelved, then people who read King (I mean, who buy King books) aren't expected to browse the SF/F section when they shop. Also, most King is set in the "real world," like general fiction, just with some spooks or paranormal added -- and maybe also an extinction-level event.

 

[Trekkin]

I feel so sorry for all the non-genre fans who were suckered into picking up the latter Dark Tower books. They would have been so fucking confused.

 

[MantaBase]

I feel so sorry for all the non-genre fans who were suckered into picking up the latter Dark Tower books. They would have been so fucking confused.

I read/listened to that series. Enjoyable....but a perfect example of why he needs an editor. Only someone like him would be allowed to kill that many trees describing something like dinner.

 

[BillJ]

Everything that's called "science fiction" is nothing other than a subgenre of fantasy - well, a number of subgenres, really. But fantasy is the more inclusive concept and term.

I've noticed you are sometimes fond of one word responses so I'll give you one here.

No.

Science fiction has always been seen as a sub-genre of Fantasy.

 

[T'Girl]

^ The same with horror.

 

[xortex]

Star Trek needs an inciting incident event that brings them out of their comfort zone to deep space. Something preferably that threatens Earth which is being protected by the Vulcans - the space brothers/cousins of the Romulans who the Klingons secretly fear.
And going to Andromeda isn't it as the series Andromeda pointed out. A space gate ain't cutting it either. A series long arc would be great. Maybe they're looking for the Talosians or the Organians because the Klingon war is going badly. Maybe the Talosians and the Organians are fighting and the Metrons put a stop to it - the space gods.

 

[Esirprus]

If I have my way a multi-writer 23+ series continuum. I'll go read the IP now.
Initial Post.

 

[Esirprus]

Star Trek is about hope. Character. Being the underdog and yet winning by a landslide. Alien ideas of humanitary perspectives. Making fun of one's self and one's heritage spelling out the worst of modern humanity while highlighting the epitome of humanity that is what Starfleet shows us as becoming. Of all Star Trek series TNG and VOY were the only two series of Star Trek on at a time I was able to watch as a child on almost every weekday two of each, back to back. That tells me those are the shows to emulate. Keep the music upbeat the lights bright. Star Trek is about a better future for humanity. Not how dark reality is.

 

[T'Girl]

Making fun of one's self and one's heritage spelling out the worst of modern humanity ...

That aspect is the worst of Star Trek. Just compare the way Captain Kirk treated a 20th century fighter pilot and a 19th century (imitation) President Lincoln, verses how Picard treated three unfrozen people from the 20th century.

Respect verses contempt.

The future is built on the foundations of the past. Kirk acted like a gentleman, Picard acted like a twit.

 

[uniderth]

In that respect, I think that replica Abraham Lincoln's "charming nigress" comment and Uhura's reply is one of the best moments or Star Trek. THAT is what Star Trek is about.

 

[Esirprus]

I forgot a most important point when I posted my prior explanation. No recurring villains. Not villains as dark as the Borg and Dominion. Having a recurring evil race with no redeeming qualities is borderline racist the precise calamity Star Trek TOS was fighting with Checkov, Spock, Sulu and Uhura. Picard's dealings with the Borg were temporary blips in an otherwise uneventful mission. If a Borg cube showed up in TNG it was a guarantee of a fire fight and that's what I think made it so popular. Like life unlike most space shows Star Trek was anything but black and white villains,. Why the Quark, Odo, and Garik episodes of DS9 were so much better than the war episodes. Grey is the only color that describes any of those three characters.
And in TNG even the enemy of the time had defectors and Picard would outsmart them more often than fire on them.

 

[Esirprus]

In that respect, I think that replica Abraham Lincoln's "charming nigress" comment and Uhura's reply is one of the best moments or Star Trek. THAT is what Star Trek is about.

I didn't say that clearly. I mean exaggerating our mistakes to such an extent the viewers can't miss it, while basing the mistakes on real life ones.

The Omega Glory, TOS is a prime example. We focus so much energy on obtaining the illusion of immortality that we destroy that which immortality should protect. Life itself.

 

[Warped9]

The Borg were (when they were introduced) the ultimate menace that couldn't be reasoned with. And yet the Borg didn't see themselves as evil (just like no insect infestations see themselves as evil).

Marauding hordes of the ancient world propbably didn't see themselves as evil either, but to those who fell before them they probably had a much different perspective.

Viruses or any other bacteriological lifeform certainly don't see themselves as evil even as they're killing off people or animals by the hundreds, thousands or millions.

A recurring villian doesn't need to be racist and can still be used to good effect as long as they're not overused. But if you go back to reusing those villians too often then you have to evolve them to keep them interesting.

 

[fireproof78]

The Borg were (when they were introduced) the ultimate menace that couldn't be reasoned with. And yet the Borg didn't see themselves as evil (just like no insect infestations see themselves as evil).

Marauding hordes of the ancient world propbably didn't see themselves as evil either, but to those who fell before them they probably had a much different perspective.

Viruses or any other bacteriological lifeform certainly don't see themselves as evil even as they're killing off people or animals by the hundreds, thousands or millions.

A recurring villian doesn't need to be racist and can still be used to good effect as long as they're not overused. But if you go back to reusing those villians too often then you have to evolve them to keep them interesting.

Which is one of the reasons why I think the Borg got a little overdone. They tried to evolve them, and humanize them with Seven, but ended up removing some of the mystery and the menace.

I personally prefer a villain who thinks they are doing something good, even as they conquer worlds. The Borg kind of went down that path in that they were trying to reach "perfection" but had little regard for the species being assimilated.

 

[Jeffe525]

Viruses or any other bacteriological lifeform certainly don't see themselves as evil even as they're killing off people or animals by the hundreds, thousands or millions.

I don't know why, but this comment made me think that it could also describe humans damaging the Earth in the 21st century. Individuals often lack the ability (or will) to recognize the negative long-term, global impact.

I'm just thinking that the long-term impact of human activity in space has rarely, if ever, been considered or debated on Trek.

A recurring villian...can still be used to good effect as long as they're not overused. But if you go back to reusing those villians too often then you have to evolve them to keep them interesting.

I think "overused" is a moving target that can be pushed out with compelling stories and good development. I mean, we never complain that main characters are overused. A villain could also be a main character if it's done right.

Which is one of the reasons why I think the Borg got a little overdone. They tried to evolve them, and humanize them with Seven, but ended up removing some of the mystery and the menace.

Well, I don't think we should be too hard on the Borg. Of course they were scary as hell when we first met them, but got less so as we learned more about how to fight them and even how to remove individuals from the collective.

But isn't that just life? Look at Magellan's Voyage, a first date, Pearl Harbor, our first day of first grade... Anything dramatically different from the norm is scary at first, but that fear always subsides as we become acclimated.

I personally prefer a villain who thinks they are doing something good, even as they conquer worlds. The Borg kind of went down that path in that they were trying to reach "perfection" but had little regard for the species being assimilated.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. The "Path to Hell is laid with good intentions" villains are always the best in any kind of story. Throw in some witty lines and a likable personality and we're talking Emmy and Oscar nods.

 

[fireproof78]

The long term impact of humanity in space (or space travel) was debated, albeit briefly, with the warp speed limit imposed in an episode of TNG. If I recall correctly, there was damage to the fabric of space/time due to excessive use of warp drive. Of course, it was resolved later on, but it was a small attempt.

Also, effective villains are one's who can generally be understood as having a legitimate point, even if their actions are destructive.

 

[uniderth]

The Borg kind of went down that path in that they were trying to reach "perfection" but had little regard for the species being assimilated.

It's not that they held little regard for them. It's that they were helping them attain perfection.

The humanization of the Borg started during TNG with the appearance of Hugh. I think that was the third or fourth appearance of the Borg.