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The Doctor in Sickbay

Vanyel

The Imperious Leader
Premium Member
Why, while in Sickbay, does the doctor need to use a tricorder? Shouldn't the ships biobed just give the doctor the information he needs? I can understand when Sickbay is damaged, or when he is away from sickbay he needs his tricorder. Sickbay's sensors should give him all he needs and also control over the medical tools used in there. Like the the arc that comes over the patient in the biobed, he should be able to just have it doing it what he wants it to do.

So aside from, letting the audience knowing what the doctor is doing, why does he need to physically need to handle the tools?
 
Why, while in Sickbay, does the doctor need to use a tricorder? Shouldn't the ships biobed just give the doctor the information he needs? I can understand when Sickbay is damaged, or when he is away from sickbay he needs his tricorder. Sickbay's sensors should give him all he needs and also control over the medical tools used in there. Like the the arc that comes over the patient in the biobed, he should be able to just have it doing it what he wants it to do.

So aside from, letting the audience knowing what the doctor is doing, why does he need to physically need to handle the tools?

Good question.

Because he was programmed to use the tricorder?

Since he is supposed to be a 'short term' EMH perhaps he uses the tricorder to store information until a 'real' person can look at it? I know they could probably call up the information from the ship's computer but main systems can go down etc etc. In other words...its a back up.
 
Is there any evidence that the Doctor is "tied in" to the ship?

I mean he obviously has to use the intercom to call people, and he (by using a tricorder) doesn't seem to have access to sensors located in sickbay.

He has to access the computer verbally or on a desk top to acquire information that's not a part his programming.
 
Is there any evidence that the Doctor is "tied in" to the ship?

All the evidence is to the contrary.

He has to use a combadge. Check in with the bridge to see what's going on.

He was designed to be used in an emergency, so I think they didn't want him to rely on the biobed - which easily could be offline.
 
I agree he should have instantly had access to information from the computer without having to check a screen, but I guess they thought we'd see him less as a crew member if he could do that.

And I never understood why the Braxton wasn't willing to bring Voyager home to preserve the timeline but he was okay letting them keep the mobile emitter. You'd think once he got home he'd realize history was changed. Hell, if the emitter didn't exist the Doctor would have been deleted in Displaced and Voyager probably wouldn't have made it very much farther.
 
As I understand it, he is an early version of the system, so I suppose there's an excuse there for not having all the features you'd hope for .
 
Its a common sci-fi trope that humans either like their artificial life forms to stand out as artificial (so as not to freak people out) or to blend in and be as human as possible (so as not to freak people out). The doctor behaving like he's a person make sense. It encourages the patients to feel that the doctor can empathise and possesses a certain amount of humanity.
 
Its a common sci-fi trope that humans either like their artificial life forms to stand out as artificial (so as not to freak people out) or to blend in and be as human as possible (so as not to freak people out). The doctor behaving like he's a person make sense. It encourages the patients to feel that the doctor can empathise and possesses a certain amount of humanity.

Perhaps, but in other areas he distinctly seemed to be designed for emergency help only. If we accept what happened in Relativity, one of his earliest statements was 'Smalltalk only compromises my performance'. And I'm sure his performance would be greatly enhanced, had he been tied in to ship systems for information retrieval (the computer had to generate him anyway, so he was tied in already) .
 
Well the Mark 1 was decommissioned for being abrasive and hot-headed so clearly short term users in the Alpha quadrant didn't enjoy that realistic human personality and they were considered a failure.

Whereas Voyager were forced to use him long term and in those unique circumstances, his grumpy, non-compliant nature actually resulted in him being accepted as a more human-like being.
 
I think he uses the tricorder because it's calibrated differently from the biobeds (for the same reason someone's Chrome bookmarks might not be the same as their Firefox bookmarks). For example, the biobed might show a complete picture of a highly complex organism, where a medical tricorder performs triage functions to single out only the most salient medical issues.

When you think about it, a medical tricorder is configured differently from a standard tricoder, which of course is designed to monitor many bands of environmental factors all at once. A medical tricorder is set to scan for precision bio-physical data while ruling out surrounding environs like medical equipment and ship structure, etc. Would be my guess.
 
Something that also bothers me (specifically, in Message in a Bottle) is that the Doctor is a program. When the computer transfers him to the mobile emitter, or anywhere in or out of the ship, why does it then remove the original program without a backup?
Yes, i know, lets make him human, etc etc but there are limits to ones credibility.
Same for having "decommissioned" EMH's working in the mines - One would think that the existing EMH program would simply be overwritten with the upgraded version; why would you have doctors essentially performing slave labor?
Holographic rights took a very bizarre turn in the later seasons of Voyager.
 
1. He was designed to act human.

2. He's a self-contained program, not an extension of the ship's computer or the sickbay sensors. He was probably designed that way so he could operate normally even when other things didn't work (hence the "E" in EMH).
 
1. He was designed to act human.

2. He's a self-contained program, not an extension of the ship's computer or the sickbay sensors. He was probably designed that way so he could operate normally even when other things didn't work (hence the "E" in EMH).

Didn't his program go offline when the computer was down? Hence the introduction of the mobile emitter allowing him greater access to the ship and being independent of the ship. Although never stated, the mobile emitter must have room enough to store all the medical information in the ship's computer.

The "E" in EMH IMHO is not just if the ship has an emergency. For instance, a patient in an isolation ward can be treated by an EMH since it is immune to disease. The 1701-E had one as well, which makes me think it was also designed to be another pair of hands. 1701-E would most likely help in planetary emergencies. A couple of hospital ships and large cruisers like a Galaxy Class or Sovereign class and especially a small Intrepid class could use the extra hands of an EMH if needed in such events. Also, in such events, having the EMH able to have full access to sickbay's sensors and, for lack of a better word, remote control of the biobed would make sense. It would leave medical tricorders for those preforming triage.

EMH: Please state the nature of the medical emergency.
CMO: Victims of a comet impact on planet Beta 5 are being brought on board. Man station "C."
EMH: Understood.
 
One would think that the existing EMH program would simply be overwritten with the upgraded version; why would you have doctors essentially performing slave labor?
Starfleet paid damned good money for those software programs, and they were going to use them somehow.
 
Didn't his program go offline when the computer was down? Hence the introduction of the mobile emitter allowing him greater access to the ship and being independent of the ship.

Two unrelated things but yes: he is a self contained program stored on the computer. If the computer goes down, the Doctor goes down. That doesn't mean that he is the embodiment of the entire computer though. Think of it this way: you download a new app on your phone. It wants permission to access A, B, and C on your phone. The Doctor does not have access to A, B, or C. He has to get it like everyone else.

Second, this is not the reason for the mobile emitter. The ME was introduced because they had simply reached their limit with what they could do with the character restricted to sickbay and the holodeck.

Although never stated, the mobile emitter must have room enough to store all the medical information in the ship's computer.

A given.

The "E" in EMH IMHO is not just if the ship has an emergency. For instance, a patient in an isolation ward can be treated by an EMH since it is immune to disease. The 1701-E had one as well, which makes me think it was also designed to be another pair of hands...

I value personal opinions, but in this case it goes against established fact and intention. The "E" in EMH does mean "Emergency" because this is what it was designed for and intended to be used for - Short-Term relief during emergency situations. It was installed on all starships for emergency purposes. If Crusher "needed another pair of hands," it's probably because she and her staff were overloaded, hence they are in the middle of a crisis.

I'm not saying that the EMH idea couldn't be used for other applications, like in FC Crusher improvised and used the EMH as a distraction. But you're not going to find an isolation ward on a typical starship.

Sure at a starbase, colony, etc., they may have another version of the program suited to perform isolation/ultra-sterile services and operate for longer periods. But those other versions probably wouldn't be called EMH.

On a Starship it's called an EMH because that's what it's indended to be.
 
Didn't his program go offline when the computer was down? Hence the introduction of the mobile emitter allowing him greater access to the ship and being independent of the ship.

Two unrelated things but yes: he is a self contained program stored on the computer. If the computer goes down, the Doctor goes down. That doesn't mean that he is the embodiment of the entire computer though. Think of it this way: you download a new app on your phone. It wants permission to access A, B, and C on your phone. The Doctor does not have access to A, B, or C. He has to get it like everyone else.

Second, this is not the reason for the mobile emitter. The ME was introduced because they had simply reached their limit with what they could do with the character restricted to sickbay and the holodeck.

I never said the Doctor was the embodiment of the ship's computer, but rather, to use your app analogy look at it this way. My Facebook app has access to my camera, gallery, and contacts it needs them to post pictures I want it to and to send invites to people not on Facebook or look up friends Facebook accounts. So the Doctor and all EMH programs must therefore have acces to at least the ship's manifest, medical supplies list, sickbay computers, biobeds and other data.

Like in the example I gave:

EMH: Please state the nature of the medical emergency.
CMO: Victims of a comet impact on planet Beta 5 are being brought on board. Man station "C."
EMH: Understood.
By being able to access the ships computer the EMH can, determine what type of injuries it would most likely encounter, the species it's going to be dealing with, what to do, where to be:
1. comet impact - smoke, dust inhalation, blunt force trauma, crushing from being trampled by running people or falling buildings, burns, and more
2. planet Beta 5 - what different species inhabit Beta 5, what medical treatments that can and cannot be used on them
3. man station C - where he needs to be

1 & 2 he'll get from the computer without having to ask unnecessary questions. Being able to get the biobed's readings without a medical tricorder frees his hands to work while the biobed gives him the patients diagnostics and where and what injuries he must treat in order of importance. Being able to remotely use the surgical arc that come over the patient allows him to multitask. Something the Doctor on Voyager should have been doing.

The "E" in EMH IMHO is not just if the ship has an emergency. For instance, a patient in an isolation ward can be treated by an EMH since it is immune to disease. The 1701-E had one as well, which makes me think it was also designed to be another pair of hands...

I value personal opinions, but in this case it goes against established fact and intention. The "E" in EMH does mean "Emergency" because this is what it was designed for and intended to be used for - Short-Term relief during emergency situations. It was installed on all starships for emergency purposes. If Crusher "needed another pair of hands," it's probably because she and her staff were overloaded, hence they are in the middle of a crisis.

Yes the EMH would be used n crisis, but not necessarily one where the ship has been damaged. Providing planetary relief would go better with the EMH working.

I'm not saying that the EMH idea couldn't be used for other applications, like in FC Crusher improvised and used the EMH as a distraction. But you're not going to find an isolation ward on a typical starship.

Sure at a starbase, colony, etc., they may have another version of the program suited to perform isolation/ultra-sterile services and operate for longer periods. But those other versions probably wouldn't be called EMH.

On a Starship it's called an EMH because that's what it's indended to be.

But we do find isolation wards on starships. The Enterprise D was able to put up containment fields around biobeds and in "Brothers" the boy with the parasitic infection was in an actual isolation chamber. Voyager had an isolation ward as well, Torres was in one when that scorpian thing attached itself to her. If a Galaxy class and Intrepid class have isolation wards or fields then it is entirely possible that all ships have them. You never know what you're going to encounter.
 
And I never understood why the Braxton wasn't willing to bring Voyager home to preserve the timeline but he was okay letting them keep the mobile emitter. You'd think once he got home he'd realize history was changed. Hell, if the emitter didn't exist the Doctor would have been deleted in Displaced and Voyager probably wouldn't have made it very much farther.
Except that we saw a future in Before And After without the mobile emitter and he was still there, doing fine - strolling around freely thanks to the holo-emitters which had been installed in every corridor and room of the ship. I expect that if the M.E. hadn't been available in Displaced then the crew would have come up with another plan - they were quite good at improvising on the spot
 
Vanyel - I don't want to requote everything again and clog up the thread.

You make some good points. But I think most of the examples you're giving regarding the EMH abilities during the comet crisis scenario is stuff a regular doctor would already know (how to treat, location of Station C, etc.).

Don't forget, they mention more than once what a large and complicated program the EMH is. To give him more abilities was impractical (at least for the Picardo Mark I). This was also why they had such a hard time keeping him constantly running for 7 years. So we could easily figure that there is certain knowledge that the Zimmerman purposely kept out of the EMH's permanent memory to make it run smoother.

You're right about the containment fields, but isolating a single bed doesn't make it a containment Ward. But I see your point: using the EMH to do tasks inside the containment field is a perfect application because it's safer. While that might not qualify as an emergency, it's still an uncommon situation. However, like Crusher, I would assume most of the front line Starfleet medical staff took issue with using an EMH at all.

But I still stand by my original assessment: I think he was designed to interact with his environment normally. Plus, I think Zimmerman's primary goal was to provide a medical care provider as a short-term supplement, not something meant to supersede living doctors or make them look obsolete.
 
Jeffe525 - As I said I never said or implied that the EMH is the embodiment of the ship's computer, just a program that should have access to what it needs to do its job. In the comet strike scenario I'm sure that there would be a briefing of the medical staff to make sure everyone knows what species or species's live on that planet. Not every doctor knows every planet and not every doctor knows every species. Once the medical staff is up to speed the EMH would activated and with that one sentence, it would know all that the med staff needing briefing on. The EMH would be the only one who you could lay any known species in front of and in an instant know what it can do to try to save the victims life.

Nor did I ever say that the EMH was meant to supersede a living doctor, I've just been arguing that it is just a tool to help, and what that tool should have to be of better assistance to the med staff.

The one of the things it needs is greater access to the ships computer and to receive information from a biobed, the sensors in sickbay and the equipment the biobed has.

That is what I stand by.
 
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