For all the comments on the text-based intro, that may become obsolete if I get to do what I have in mind for the special edition. IF I can get everyone together, we may film the rescue and either it will be its own episode that continues in this one, or it might simply become part of it. The old maxim, "Show, don't tell," comes to mind. Opinions? Would it be better to do it as a standalone separate episode, or a part of this one with a much tighter edit?
Starship Saladin: Eye of the Tempest
- Thread starter Maurice
- Start date
I'm in the camp that believes you generally only include what's important for the current story. "Out of thin air" isn't a problem unless you suddenly invent something which seems to contradict what was seen previously.
Bixby's comment about directional continuity is correct. The film breaks it a here and there. The problem is likely that you're shooting your actors in isolation without thinking about which way they are facing. Even with characters moving around it's fairly easy to get it right if you just plan out your shots and where the characters are relative to one another. For anyone reading who doesn't know what we're referring to, it's eyelines and "The Line", which I detailed in a couple of posts in the Fan Filmmaker's Primer here (link1) and here (link2).
Bixby's comment about directional continuity is correct. The film breaks it a here and there. The problem is likely that you're shooting your actors in isolation without thinking about which way they are facing. Even with characters moving around it's fairly easy to get it right if you just plan out your shots and where the characters are relative to one another. For anyone reading who doesn't know what we're referring to, it's eyelines and "The Line", which I detailed in a couple of posts in the Fan Filmmaker's Primer here (link1) and here (link2).
Last edited:
The only thing is, I did plan it out. So something is apparently lost in the translation. When she looks to her left, she's talking to the helm, and depending on the angle, maybe also the navigator. When she looks forward and to her right, she's talking to the science officer. That should be putting these people where they would physically be located. I was very careful about that, but it is possible I'm off a bit. I'll post some pics and views of the bridge stations and see if we are thinking the same things or not. I'm very with you on the critical need to get the angles right.
This post will be edited to include photos shortly.
Okay, here's the images:
Mitchell from science station, looking at Randall in the captain's chair, two angles:
This was another alternate angle on the science officer, showing where her station is in relation to the bridge:
Randall looking at Mitchell at science station, two views:
Randall to helm and navigation:
Helm looking back:
Sha'Ress to Randall standing behind her and at the captain's chair:
Randall to Sha'Ress at communications, right behind the captain's chair:
The science console may be a little too far forward as it is in reality directly to the starboard of the Captain's chair. That's about all I see on this sequence.
As far as the Antyllus bridge goes, George only had room for a VERY small set which he uses in his series, and his characters share it. It is definitely a challenge to see that entire bridge laid out. Kind of have to suspend disbelief a little in that case.
I'll double check the edit. The photos above don't show the navigator as they're older images before I added him and finalized the shots. But the gist should be there. I hope this helps it make sense.
Thanks!
Ken
Last edited:
I'm not sure you need to do that. Indeed, I think it's just as effective opening on the shuttle escape post-rescue.
I have a few ideas. It may also be a flashback in a different story after the events of this, if I do it. There is a debriefing coming, though that's not the entire story. At this point, I'm pretty exhausted, so it may or may not happen.
Hopefully this should clear up any confusion:
Eyelines in opposition = correct
i.e. Mitchell looks camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines in opposition (if Mitchell turned to look at Randall) = correct
i.e. Mitchell would look camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines not in opposition = incorrect
i.e. Mitchell looks camera left to see Randall, and Randall also looks camera left to see Mitchell <— <—, ergo the shot of Mitchell "crosses The Line" and breaks the eyelines
Eyelines in opposition = correct
i.e. Mitchell looks camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines in opposition (if Mitchell turned to look at Randall) = correct
i.e. Mitchell would look camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines not in opposition = incorrect
i.e. Mitchell looks camera left to see Randall, and Randall also looks camera left to see Mitchell <— <—, ergo the shot of Mitchell "crosses The Line" and breaks the eyelines
Just recounting my personal experience with Excelsior: after we released our pilot episode we decided to use it as a learning experience. Rather than trying to clean it up and make it a more polished production we used it as a learning experience and did our best to apply the lessons learned to future episodes. We have the pilot episode available in our archives, but we have it as a stand alone for those who would like to compare where we started in terms of production quality to where we are now. Your mileage may well vary, but in my opinion re-working the episode may be as much work as making a new one. (This also is much like what NV/Phase 2 did with their pilot episode)
Take your time and you will figure out what's best for you.
Hopefully this should clear up any confusion:
Eyelines in opposition = correct
i.e. Mitchell looks camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines in opposition (if Mitchell turned to look at Randall) = correct
i.e. Mitchell would look camera right to see Randall, and Randall looks camera left to see Mitchell —> <—
Eyelines not in opposition = incorrect
i.e. Mitchell looks camera left to see Randall, and Randall also looks camera left to see Mitchell <— <—, ergo the shot of Mitchell "crosses The Line" and breaks the eyelines
You're talking about a violation of the 180 degree rule. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Oh well. Not much I can do about that one now. I'll chalk it up to one that got away from me!
I'm not really expecting a major change in the re-edit. Primarily I will trim the dead air bits and fix the audio. That's the most critical. And I will probably at the very least shorten the intro. The biggest takeaway I get from 90% of the criticism is the edit is loose and the audio is messed up. While it's still on my hard drive (and finally backed up) I'll give it one more edit pass. It will never be perfect, but it can be at least a little better technically, I think.
Then, onward to other things.
Ken
Thank you, Phantassm.
Greetings everyone, my name is Ken Thomson, and yes, I am responsible for "Eye of the Tempest." For good or ill, I made the movie.
Let me first say thank you for taking the time to watch it. I have had mixed reviews, a lot of people have enjoyed it, some have not. To those who have not, I know there are technical issues, and the editing could be a lot tighter. The audio levels do jump in a few places. I intend to edit again and fix as much of that as I can, but I need a break for awhile first. That said, constructive criticism can make a real difference in a re-edit if anyone feels inclined to give me your honest thoughts. I will listen.
I'm not here to offer excuses on why things are the way they are in this movie. I took on the gig myself, for my own reasons, and did the work myself, 90% solo over a year's time. During that time, I worked on over a dozen other fan films to help them get released, including Starship Exeter, Starship Farragut, Star Trek Continues, Star Trek Eagle, and Star Trek Antyllus. This is a passion for me, and for a long time I have been talking about doing a film. A very long time. So, I made one. It may be flawed, and it may not be satisfactory to everyone's tastes. I do accept that. But at least I did it. So for that, no apologies. I had to do one, and I did it.
All that said, I pretty much agree with the critiques I have seen on it. I could tear it apart myself and whether you believe it or not, I do. I have learned at least a dozen lessons of ways to improve next time around. If you'll stick with me, it will get better.
As for story issues, I'll discuss that on the next post in a moment.
Hi Ken, Thanks for your comments! I watched the episode, I like the animations! This could have been on my end of YT but I had trouble hearing some of the exchange between characters in the middle of the episode, *Again, it could have been a YT vs my compy problem. *
My personal comment! It is a bold good episode, and continue on because future episodes will get better and better!
Thanks Saladin for being one of the groups that keep Star Trek Fan Films rolling!
Romdoll!
Thank you, Phantassm.
Greetings everyone, my name is Ken Thomson, and yes, I am responsible for "Eye of the Tempest." For good or ill, I made the movie.
Let me first say thank you for taking the time to watch it. I have had mixed reviews, a lot of people have enjoyed it, some have not. To those who have not, I know there are technical issues, and the editing could be a lot tighter. The audio levels do jump in a few places. I intend to edit again and fix as much of that as I can, but I need a break for awhile first. That said, constructive criticism can make a real difference in a re-edit if anyone feels inclined to give me your honest thoughts. I will listen.
I'm not here to offer excuses on why things are the way they are in this movie. I took on the gig myself, for my own reasons, and did the work myself, 90% solo over a year's time. During that time, I worked on over a dozen other fan films to help them get released, including Starship Exeter, Starship Farragut, Star Trek Continues, Star Trek Eagle, and Star Trek Antyllus. This is a passion for me, and for a long time I have been talking about doing a film. A very long time. So, I made one. It may be flawed, and it may not be satisfactory to everyone's tastes. I do accept that. But at least I did it. So for that, no apologies. I had to do one, and I did it.
All that said, I pretty much agree with the critiques I have seen on it. I could tear it apart myself and whether you believe it or not, I do. I have learned at least a dozen lessons of ways to improve next time around. If you'll stick with me, it will get better.
As for story issues, I'll discuss that on the next post in a moment.
Hi Ken, Thanks for your comments! I watched the episode, I like the animations! This could have been on my end of YT but I had trouble hearing some of the exchange between characters in the middle of the episode, *Again, it could have been a YT vs my compy problem. *
My personal comment! It is a bold good episode, and continue on because future episodes will get better and better!
Thanks Saladin for being one of the groups that keep Star Trek Fan Films rolling!
Romdoll!
Thank you!
I'm very glad you enjoyed it. I still plan to resolve the audio issues and trim it some, but I will not be trimming out any story elements. They're there for a reason and without them, it doesn't work. A friend sent me an edit of the film he did, but it cuts out way too much. I'm definitely not going to go that far with a re-edit, though I appreciate what he was trying to show me.
Similar threads
